Looking for Skeptics

[Pixel42]

To pixel42 . Tracy did;nt refuse , the spirits did .

You are assuming what the investigation will discover before it is carried out. At this point there are two possibilities: the spirits really exist, or flaccon is mistaken. If the spirits do not exist then it is flaccon, consciously or unconsciously, that is refusing, by interpreting the sounds she hears as a refusal by the spirits. Even if the spirits do exist flaccon could explain to them why rejecting objective testing is very stupid, and insist on it. She just accepts their stupidity, indeed she seems to agree with it.

Tracy is willing to sort out a few hundred files and she will identify every one if necessary .

It's a start, but it's not an objective test by any means. Once you think you have identified words in noise you are likely to hear the same words every time you hear the same noise. I doubt such a test would be acceptable to JREF or ASKE. We'll always need to do the kind of test where the spirits reveal information that the person listening to them has no other way of discovering before we can reasonably conclude that anything paranormal is happening.

 

[Mojo]

Scrappy, did you ever meet Flaccon's father?

 

[jsfisher]

Tracy is going to find a hot spot some time this week . Tracy initially offered to hire a private room for discussions and tests . The test involving the 50 recordings suggested by Trustbutverfy is very acceptable . Post 2045 .

I believe you meant post 2405. Here is the relevant part from that post:

Stage III: Have flaccon provide 50 old recordings, along with transcripts for each one. Crop each recording to equal time lengths, and randomly shuffle. Provide flaccon with a master sheet of each transcript, and play the shuffled recordings for her. After each playback, flaccon matches the recording to a transcript entry. 90%+ accuracy indicates possible paranormal activity.

If this is to be the test, what is the claim it is testing? And how does this test rule out pareidolia or other mundane cause as an explanation?

 

[Mojo]

Tracy is going to find a hot spot some time this week . Tracy initially offered to hire a private room for discussions and tests . The test involving the 50 recordings suggested by Trustbutverfy is very acceptable . Post 2045 .

To pixel42 . Tracy did;nt refuse , the spirits did . Tracy is willing to sort out a few hundred files and she will identify every one if necessary .

Scrappy, what about this test:

In addition, since scrappy says he can hear messages on his silent recordings only after flaccon has played them on her computer, perhaps we could get flaccon to open and play specified recordings and not others (without revealing which ones) and then scrappy could tell us which ones flaccon has played and which ones she has left unopened. There should be clear and unambiguous messages on the played ones and silence on the unplayed ones. Again, anything less that 100% accuracy at this would rather undermine the claims they are making.

Reposted in this thread since scrappy and flaccon don't seem to have been able to find the other one.

 

[Alderbank]

Arthur Lintgen, the Man Who Could Read the Grooves

If this is to be the test, what is the claim it is testing? And how does this test rule out pareidolia or other mundane cause as an explanation?

I believe Randi would agree with you, js

Stage III: Have flaccon provide 50 old recordings, along with transcripts for each one. Crop each recording to equal time lengths, and randomly shuffle. Provide flaccon with a master sheet of each transcript, and play the shuffled recordings for her. After each playback, flaccon matches the recording to a transcript entry. 90%+ accuracy indicates possible paranormal activity.

Great news that flaccon and scrappy are willing to do this. flaccon will be able to do this easily and it will be a good introduction to the fascinating world of scientific testing.

Her claim, that she can recognise order where the rest of us see chaos, is really the same as Dr Lintgen who can look at the grooves of a vinyl LP and tell you the title. For a protocol you will not do better than http://www.illusionworks.com/grooves.htm where Lintgen was tested in 1982 by James Randi, no less, to a protocol of Randi's own devising.

Lintgen's test was far harder than flaccon's who will identify out of fifty of her own recordings with transcripts and needs to get 90% correct. Lintgen claimed to identify any post-Beethoven classical orchestral record (there are tens of thousands) even if he had never heard it played, simply by looking at the grooves. He had no transcript of titles

He passed the test easily scoring 100% but he claims no supernatural ability and Randi confirmed that although this was skillful it was not evidence of anything paranormal

 

[pakeha]

Tracy is going to find a hot spot some time this week . Tracy initially offered to hire a private room for discussions and tests . The test involving the 50 recordings suggested by Trustbutverfy is very acceptable . Post 2045 .

In this context, what's a hot spot?

 

[jsfisher]

In this context, what's a hot spot?

WiFi hot spot. Flaccon is having internet connectivity issues, so, presumably, leaching off of some public wireless access is her only option for the nonce.

 

[Alderbank]

In this context, what's a hot spot?

In the UK it's a public place with wifi. Starbucks, for example

 

[Mojo]

In the UK it's a public place with wifi. Starbucks, for example

That explains why she's having so much trouble finding one, I suppose.

 

[pakeha]

Ahh, now I understand.
Thanks for putting the E into JREF.
And for dictating/inspiring where I'll stop on my way to work this afternoon.

 

[Alderbank]

Could be.

Here is a list of hotspots in Chester: http://www.myhotspots.co.uk/results.aspx?Town=Chester

About 150

 

[Mojo]

Could be.

Here is a list of hotspots in Chester: http://www.myhotspots.co.uk/results.aspx?Town=Chester

About 150

[offtopic]
Did you see the instructions at the bottom of the page for getting the results emailed?

Get a copy of the results on this page emailed to you:

n.b If there's no results on this page, there won't be any in the email.

[/offtopic]

 

[Donn]

I really thought a "hot spot" was some woo geo-location! I pictures flaccon with a laptop in her hands, turning and bending and stretching around seeking a place in the air where the spirits were.

Assume. Making an ass out of u and me!



Also - Nice story about the record-groove guy.

 

[tsig]

Read what scrappy said again. I don't think he would have said that the way he did if he wasn't including flaccon's sisters in those three.

Flaccon's sisters and her brother have heard her recordings. Only 6 or 7 other people have heard them, besides the 30-odd JREFers who have said they've listened and not heard voices.

First you have to believe in the voices then you can hear the voices.

 

[Hokulele]

To pixel42 . Tracy did;nt refuse , the spirits did . Tracy is willing to sort out a few hundred files and she will identify every one if necessary .

Did you first learn about flaccon's claims via her website, or through a mutual acquaintance? Has she ever charged you for her services?

 

[Reno]

To Maurice yes they are loud and clear . With hands on approach the score is eleven one . I don't know how Flaccon bites her lip as much as she does " probarly because she prefers to remain focused "

Are you sure the score is eleven one? ELEVEN one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAz_UvnUeuU

 

[scrappy]

Yes I am sure thank you .

 

[Mojo]

Yes I am sure thank you .

Scrappy, did you ever meet Flaccon's father?

 

[scrappy]

No I have never met her father ,just getting fed up of the insults on here . All the name calling saying we are the same person .

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Yes I am sure thank you .

It was a joke...

Yet your score has been shown to make no sense.

Since you have been part of the process for a while, it might help if you could answer some of the questions that were posed. I mean the relevant ones.

Let me know if you want to give it a try and I can gather a list for you.

I have a feeling that if no one on the woo side cooperates, it will be easy and correct to conclude that there are no actual voices, let alone that they come form the spirit world, let alone that anyone can tell who the spirits are/were.

I do not and will not speak for anyone else, but this conclusion will quickly become inevitable, if it hasn't already.