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Proving the Aurora Theater Shooting's official story false

abaddon said:
Still waiting for the promised "proof" in the OP. Guess it ain't gonna happen.
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It's kindof in the op... You guys got worked over pretty badly. It's like you just keep repeating rhetorical arguments and accusations in order to turn away stupid people. Anyone with half a brain is questioning stuff now... just turn on the gd ms news.

I'm like "plenty" of people from theater 8 report testimonies which suggest explosives, with some outright reporting and tweeting these explosives. You can't offer anything but: "witness testimony is faulty" ignoring the other half of the argument which is a trajectory analysis:

Hankins is four seats in and 3 walls away, and Golditch is either in the middle of the theater or all the way on the other side (bullet had to pass through all the other people sitting down, and cork-screw through his flesh to exit out the back) and you have both of these victims reporting the original assumption that their injuries were caused by explosives.

So, it's kind of like.... yeahhhhh.....
 
Neveos said:
It's kindof in the op... You guys got worked over pretty badly. It's like you just keep repeating rhetorical arguments and accusations in order to turn away stupid people. Anyone with half a brain is questioning stuff now... just turn on the gd ms news.

I'm like "plenty" of people from theater 8 report testimonies which suggest explosives, with some outright reporting and tweeting these explosives. You can't offer anything but: "witness testimony is faulty" ignoring the other half of the argument which is a trajectory analysis:

Hankins is four seats in and 3 walls away, and Golditch is either in the middle of the theater or all the way on the other side (bullet had to pass through all the other people sitting down, and cork-screw through his flesh to exit out the back) and you have both of these victims reporting the original assumption that their injuries were caused by explosives.

So, it's kind of like.... yeahhhhh.....
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And you have continued to ignore my request for physical evidence showing explosive detonation, so your reliance on witness testimony only tells me you've got -0-

This is would be a fun thread if it wasn't predicated by fantasy and murder. I rather enjoy watching the machinations of trolls.
 
Neveos said:
It's kindof in the op...<snip> I'm like "plenty" of people from theater 8 report testimonies which suggest explosives, with some outright reporting and tweeting these explosives.
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You seem to have missed the point. Your interpretation of subjective descriptions are weak evidence. They are not proof.

Do you understand the difference between evidence and proof? Not meaning that to sound snarky, but you seem to be arguing you have presented proof, when you have not.
 
OneTime said:
So far two people have requested that I be banned, and the guy talking bogus ct's claims that i'm a dis informant agent on a smear campaign :D I must have hit a couple of raw nerves
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Given that's in all likelyhood why you're here (and your trollish grin), I have a strong feeling this makes you very happy.

And it was documented last year that 83 million facebook accounts were fake, and around 20 million fake twitter accounts.
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Probably:). Relevance to this topic?

You guys can say 'prove it' all day long but it works both ways, you need to prove there are real physical victims.
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I have bad experiences with trying to prove things to trolls, particularly those of the CT variety.

What kind of proof do you want? I say I personally know the bereaved from July 22nd, and you respond with something about my post being "gibberish" and a smug smiley face. We've got blogs, interviews, books, and statements and journals from emergency responders, priests, psychiatrists, support groups and the list goes on, but I have a feeling you'll just handwave all of that away as "fake" for no reason, too, even though the chances of successfully pulling such a massive conspiracy off, in free and open societies, no less, are so tiny it's just mind-boggling.

It's hard to prove things to people who have decided it's more funny to sit on their hind legs and laugh at all the attention they get stirring the pot, all the while being very, very careful not to provide anything in the way of proof that can be shot down themselves, or for that matter, answering questions.

Neveos said:
It's kindof in the op... You guys got worked over pretty badly. It's like you just keep repeating rhetorical arguments and accusations in order to turn away stupid people. Anyone with half a brain is questioning stuff now... just turn on the gd ms news.
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We're just too used to people barging in here with all kinds of weird claims and little in the way of knowledge or actual evidence. It gets tiring after a while, and this means new arrivals don't get much respect from us.

I'm like "plenty" of people from theater 8 report testimonies which suggest explosives
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Yes, if you've got a pre-determined a.g.e.n.d.a I suppose it "suggests" bombs were used. Or it could be, you know, the bullets and gas bombs and general state of panic -- things that neither any of us, nor the "official story", denies.

Still waiting for you to prove the "official story" wrong, by the way. Or, heck, I'm still waiting for you to even tell us what you actually believe, beyond just "oh, some random witness accounts taken out of context might mean X, Y or Z".
 
Azrael 5 said:
The cry of "vicsims" is the most stupid thing ever, the "actor" playing the victim would soon be exposed by friends relatives,colleagues,work mates,employers and neighbours just to start
So silly.
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Yup. Make a list of your close friends, collegues and family and chances are you hit a dozen to 20 people or more, so after disasters such as Aurora, July 22nd or Sandy Hook, we're talking litterally thousands, if not tens of thousands of people who would have to be "in on it" and pretend to have lost friends and family members, and that's just the closest friends and family. Add to that these peoples' friends and family, and you have such a huge number it's staggering. I read a statistic once that every fight American (yes, every fifth, as in 350 million divided by five) knew someone affected by the 9/11 tragedy.

If you also count school staff, support groups, collegues, friends and family, press, insurance company employees and so on, litterally the whole country, every single person, would have to be in on it. Litterally.

"Crisis actor" CTs are like multi-level marketing scams. They sound good and plausible in theory, but then you sit down and give it two minutes of critical thought and it dawns on you that it's litterally not possible. It's not just implausible, like winning the lottery or conning your way into the Oval Office. It's impossible.

Perhaps a dictatorship like North Korea or Nazi Germany could pull it off -- build a theatre somewhere and burn it down and hire some actors to pretend to have lost people there -- and I know that terrorist groups such as Hizbollah and HAMAS have been known to go to bomb sites and pretend to have lost loved ones there. But even when they do it, they're found out rather quickly.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
If you also count school staff, support groups, collegues, friends and family, press, insurance company employees and so on, literally the whole country, every single person, would have to be in on it. Literally.
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It is even crazier than you describe.
For the school shootings, one needs a bunch of 7-year-old kids who are in on it. One has to hire 7-year-old actors so that they can appear genuinely grief-stricken on camera. And one has to hope that these 7-year-old kids can keep a secret for the rest of their lives. As another poster is fond of saying when encountering such nonsense: Ya shure, pull the other leg, too.

Perhaps a dictatorship like North Korea or Nazi Germany could pull it off -- build a theatre somewhere and burn it down and hire some actors to pretend to have lost people there -- and I know that terrorist groups such as Hizbollah and HAMAS have been known to go to bomb sites and pretend to have lost loved ones there. But even when they do it, they're found out rather quickly.
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And this paragraph shows the utter ridiculousness of the entire concept. If the Nazis wanted to control people by scaring them with mass murders, the Nazis wouldn't fake the deaths, the Nazis would simply mass murder some real people and pin the crime on a patsy. Which brings us back to the twenty-first century. If one runs an organization that needs to advance an agenda by having the country believe that six dozen people were shot, then it is much, much easier to simply shoot six dozen people than it is to make up a story.

Furthermore, the conspiracy being described in this thread has the same fatal flaw that most conspiracies do: the masterminds are both geniuses and ignoramuses at the same time. They come up with a plan, "let's assert that over 60 people are shot in a specific movie theater. The first step will be to plant bombs in the adjacent theater." Why?A thousand times why. What is the use of planting magical bombs with explosions that are loud enough to make one person's ears ring, but soft enough that dozens of other people don't notice the explosions? What is the point of planting a bomb that will make one person's leg feel hot? What is the point of bombs at all? If someone is trying to to frame Holmes, why put bombs in a completely different theater?
 
Wolrab said:
They are obvious trolls or seriously mentally deranged.
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I view it the exact opposite. Neither of those two groups need to be banned.

..............
ETA: my view of trolls is summed up in my sig.
Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.
 
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Ladewig said:
Furthermore, the conspiracy being described in this thread has the same fatal flaw that most conspiracies do: the masterminds are both geniuses and ignoramuses at the same time. They come up with a plan, "let's assert that over 60 people are shot in a specific movie theater. The first step will be to plant bombs in the adjacent theater." Why?A thousand times why. What is the use of planting magical bombs with explosions that are loud enough to make one person's ears ring, but soft enough that dozens of other people don't notice the explosions? What is the point of planting a bomb that will make one person's leg feel hot? What is the point of bombs at all? If someone is trying to to frame Holmes, why put bombs in a completely different theater?
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Also: what is the point of planting bombs for then to pretend they didn't exist:confused:?
 
Went to the movies yesterday and the stair way wall was at my waist as I ascended the stairs, I am just under 6'. Seated the upper 1/4 of my body was easily exposed. There is only one wall that comes into play, the wall between the theatres.
 
Neveos said:
It's kindof in the op... You guys got worked over pretty badly. It's like you just keep repeating rhetorical arguments and accusations in order to turn away stupid people. Anyone with half a brain is questioning stuff now... just turn on the gd ms news.
.....
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So proof of your proposition is extremely lenient, while proof of anything that disagrees with your position is extremely strict.

Think about this carefully. Given the fact that no two human beings have the same viewpoints on any position, can you see any flaws in this method of determining whether something is true or not?
 
aggle-rithm said:
So proof of your proposition is extremely lenient, while proof of anything that disagrees with your position is extremely strict.

Think about this carefully. Given the fact that no two human beings have the same viewpoints on any position, can you see any flaws in this method of determining whether something is true or not?
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A fact so well-known that it appears as a popular trope in movies and TV

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RashomonStyle
A Rashomon-Style story is where the same event is recounted by several characters. The stories differ in ways that are impossible to reconcile. It shows that two or more people can view the same event quite differently. The author invites the audience to hear them all out and then compare and contrast these divergent points of view. Sometimes the work provides no definitive answer as to what actually happened.​
 
For just a split second suppose they did use crisis actors. Those crisis actors are real people, right? So wouldn't the whole thing unravel when those actors start getting grilled on why they were at the theater pretending to know someone who was shot then attending the funeral for this fake person? And are all the people at the funeral also paid to pretend to have known the fake person?

I mean one of the victims was a high school student with a girlfriend who survived. If she is just a crisis actor who recruited her? Were her real parents in on it too? What about her friends in real life?
 
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Biscuit said:
Went to the movies yesterday and the stair way wall was at my waist as I ascended the stairs, I am just under 6'. Seated the upper 1/4 of my body was easily exposed. There is only one wall that comes into play, the wall between the theatres.
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That's the thing about that pesky problem of numerical identity. You see, sometimes there are two different things. I know it's hard to grasp that, but sometimes when we speak of something, and no matter how much something else might resemble it, it's actually a completely different thing altogether. It's crazy, I know.

http://s24.postimg.org/wtq0fjgj8/theater8.jpg
 
Neveos said:
It's kindof in the op... You guys got worked over pretty badly. It's like you just keep repeating rhetorical arguments and accusations in order to turn away stupid people. Anyone with half a brain is questioning stuff now... just turn on the gd ms news.
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Your little conspiracy fantasy can be dismissed out of hand, considering the scenario is 100% impossible. For such an event to be conceived, staffed, supplied, and enacted, there would be so much hard evidence, we'd be drowning in the stuff. That you can't provide anything past this-seems-suspicious-to-me observations, only goes to show you might want to consider taking up a better hobby.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Yup. Make a list of your close friends, collegues and family and chances are you hit a dozen to 20 people or more, so after disasters such as Aurora, July 22nd or Sandy Hook, we're talking litterally thousands, if not tens of thousands of people who would have to be "in on it" and pretend to have lost friends and family members, and that's just the closest friends and family. Add to that these peoples' friends and family, and you have such a huge number it's staggering. I read a statistic once that every fight American (yes, every fifth, as in 350 million divided by five) knew someone affected by the 9/11 tragedy.

If you also count school staff, support groups, collegues, friends and family, press, insurance company employees and so on, litterally the whole country, every single person, would have to be in on it. Litterally.

"Crisis actor" CTs are like multi-level marketing scams. They sound good and plausible in theory, but then you sit down and give it two minutes of critical thought and it dawns on you that it's litterally not possible. It's not just implausible, like winning the lottery or conning your way into the Oval Office. It's impossible.
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Ladewig said:
It is even crazier than you describe.
For the school shootings, one needs a bunch of 7-year-old kids who are in on it. One has to hire 7-year-old actors so that they can appear genuinely grief-stricken on camera. And one has to hope that these 7-year-old kids can keep a secret for the rest of their lives. As another poster is fond of saying when encountering such nonsense: Ya shure, pull the other leg, too.
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Y'all make fun and call the belief ridiculous, I call it frightening.

If pretty much everyone except the conspiracy theorists are in on it and they alone are the good guys in a world full of bad guys than what is to stop them from acting out in some action fantasy? Especially if that person is particularly unstable or has some kind of organic disease that predisposes them towards violence, such as Christopher Dorner?
 
Neveos said:
It's kindof in the op...
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Orly? let's just take a look at the OP, shall we?

Neveos said:
Explosives went off in theater 8 (the theater adjacent to the theater that shooting occurred [theater 9]). Multiple people witnessed the smoke, the flashes, the "popping" noises. Some people actually injured with "shrapnel" injuries. One individual, a Rachel Fedelli, in theater 8 actually tweeted that gas cans were thrown into her theater. Witnesses were actually perplexed by the story of bullets coming through the walls (as certain injured individuals had multiple "walls" in the way) and wished to return to see how this could explain the injuries they recieved, but both the theaters were torn down for renovation purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG-Su7ZIFjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nUJmtJ0sHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1XAxuXHEKk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dcy4nPUM10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUiKKJgbN4E

Debunking attempt slammed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcgGtg2olt4

_________________________________________________________

A working theory is that the explosives were set off in order to justify blocking a football team in the theater who might have interfered with the operation.

So blatant and damaging is this contradiction, that it has come out, much later, that James Holmes bought a ticket for the showing in theater 8. The case might be made that Holmes planted timed explosives in the adjacent theater, and that this simply has not been reported (with the gag order) prior to the trial. Regardless such a story, and especially stories such as Zack Golditch's, would be extremely damaging to the confidence in the official story, since Golditch was originally told he had a "shrapnel" injury (with Zack saying he felt a "firecracker" go off behind his head) and the doctor refuting that description, saying he was "shot" by a bullet penetrating through the wall.
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Yup, yootoob spam. No more, no less. Take your toob spam elsewhere, noob.
 
Neveos said:
That's the thing about that pesky problem of numerical identity. You see, sometimes there are two different things. I know it's hard to grasp that, but sometimes when we speak of something, and no matter how much something else might resemble it, it's actually a completely different thing altogether. It's crazy, I know.

http://s24.postimg.org/wtq0fjgj8/theater8.jpg
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What material is in those walls that would prevent bullet shrapnel from penetrating through?
 
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