Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Dan O.]

Bump.

My IT guys say the wireless router in the apartment might have recorded log on attempts. That could add to the timeline. Anyone know if it was recovered?

Also, I ask a similar question about the router at RS's place. If it showed active logons well into the night, then that would be pretty important evidence.

The girls did have internet. Amanda reported this on her MySpace page before she moved in. But there is otherwise no mention of internet access from the cottage. I suspect the router was downstairs and may have been overlooked. perhaps if the experts hadn't fried all of the hard drives they would have noticed the internet activity and gone looking for the router. Then perhaps this is too technical for ILE and they would have just relied on the ISP logs.


I don't recall seeing the router at Raffaele's place though we know he had one. The login times in the router logs would not be informative here since Raffaele's computer was always connected and running P2P. ISPs in Italy are already required to record web access. Raffaele's ISP, FastWeb, reported a 4 second connection to www.apple.com from Raffaele's router in the middle of the night.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

With respect, this is not a rebuttal to the many comments that have addressed the contamination issue even in the last day.

Don't tell me, tell the judge, he will decide but if the defence does not agree with the finding, what else can they do but claim contamination, it happens in millions of cases I'm sure, then they must show it, the prosecution sure isn't going to.

 

[RoseMontague]

Don't tell me, tell the judge, he will decide but if the defence does not agree with the finding, what else can they do but claim contamination, it happens in millions of cases I'm sure, then they must show it, the prosecution sure isn't going to.

Do you think the additional male profiles on the bra clasp are the result of contamination or the result of at least 4 different males handling her bra clasp?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Seeing a couple looking over the rail at a busy intersection with nothing to look at except the gate was probably something he hadn't seen all year. It would easy to connect that unusual sighting when he thought about it. Amanda didn't look or dress like an Italian and stood out as identifiable with Sollecito.

Plus, he didn't know where Amanda or Raff lived, so even when he realized there had been a murder, why would he associate Amanda and Raff with that. It's also not like he was an artist and was painting a picture of the park with them in it at that time, he was doing what he normally does each night there, sitting on a bench, reading a paper and casually looking around him like anyone else would have done.

 

[anglolawyer]

If the defense claims contamination, they should then have to prove it, how does that sound.

Pretty stupid, frankly. You're determined not to understand so I won't try explaining it again.

 

[anglolawyer]

Do you think the additional male profiles on the bra clasp are the result of contamination or the result of at least 4 different males handling her bra clasp?

They don't count. They only had little peaks.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Do you think the additional male profiles on the bra clasp are the result of contamination or the result of at least 4 different males handling her bra clasp?

Without knowing who those belong to and talking with them it would be impossible to know, I would think contamination does happen, but is rare, the likelihood of it happening 4 times on the same small piece of material I would think even less likely but then I'm no specialist.

 

[MattJones]

The girls did have internet. Amanda reported this on her MySpace page before she moved in. But there is otherwise no mention of internet access from the cottage. I suspect the router was downstairs and may have been overlooked. perhaps if the experts hadn't fried all of the hard drives they would have noticed the internet activity and gone looking for the router. Then perhaps this is too technical for ILE and they would have just relied on the ISP logs.


I don't recall seeing the router at Raffaele's place though we know he had one. The login times in the router logs would not be informative here since Raffaele's computer was always connected and running P2P. ISPs in Italy are already required to record web access. Raffaele's ISP, FastWeb, reported a 4 second connection to from Raffaele's router in the middle of the night.

Thank you, and very interesting. I wonder if it could still be found stuffed in a box somewhere.

 

[Briars]

Pictures I have seen of the residents of the cottage show them wearing the usual stuff like jeans and t-shirts including the Italian girls.

So they were there for between 2 and three hours according to the now deceased, heroin addicted, drug dealing homeless park bench bum. What were they waiting for and how does it fit about when Rudy was in the cottage? What is your theory, when did they go over to the cottage, etc?

'the now deceased, heroin addicted , drug dealing homeless park bench bum' gee anything else to add Rose? didn't gaze continuously at them as sherlock said. He read and when he remembered to look over saw them. In his innocent observation it seemed like they remained there. Because it was a real observation he didn't say he watched them leave and come back which they would have. His times would also not necessarily be exact . It makes sense that having committed a crime they waited to see when they could safely return. The timing of the scream by the sleeping Capezzelli , and Monaccia, the witness who was knocked by a fleeing Guede, the proof of more than one assailant all work with Curatolo's time frame.

 

[Dan O.]

Don't tell me, tell the judge

it would be impossible to know

Sherlock is on a roll. He believes that only an anointed judge can tell the truth.


Until Sherlock realizes that we do have access to the evidence and we can analyze it and reach an independent conclusion, there is no point in discussion the case with him. He has fixed his beliefs years ago and no amount of evidence can persuade him to change those belief because he will refuse to confront it.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

'the now deceased, heroin addicted , drug dealing homeless park bench bum' gee anything else to add Rose? didn't gaze continuously at them as sherlock said. He read and when he remembered to look over saw them. In his innocent observation it seemed like they remained there. Because it was a real observation he didn't say he watched them leave and come back which they would have. His times would also not necessarily be exact . It makes sense that having committed a crime they waited to see when they could safely return. The timing of the scream by the sleeping Capezzelli , and Monaccia, the witness who was knocked by a fleeing Guede, the proof of more than one assailant all work with Curatolo's time frame.

I also just read that the SC have said that his testimony was reliable.

 

[RoseMontague]

'the now deceased, heroin addicted , drug dealing homeless park bench bum' gee anything else to add Rose? didn't gaze continuously at them as sherlock said. He read and when he remembered to look over saw them. In his innocent observation it seemed like they remained there. Because it was a real observation he didn't say he watched them leave and come back which they would have. His times would also not necessarily be exact . It makes sense that having committed a crime they waited to see when they could safely return. The timing of the scream by the sleeping Capezzelli , and Monaccia, the witness who was knocked by a fleeing Guede, the proof of more than one assailant all work with Curatolo's time frame.

Did he notice that they had changed clothes from their now bloody ones to clean fresh ones? Wasn't she wearing a white skirt? Does she have two of them?

And I'll add lying liar and professional witness for the prosecution.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sherlock is on a roll. He believes that only an anointed judge can tell the truth.


Until Sherlock realizes that we do have access to the evidence and we can analyze it and reach an independent conclusion, there is no point in discussion the case with him. He has fixed his beliefs years ago and no amount of evidence can persuade him to change those belief because he will refuse to confront it.

I'll trust the experts on this I believe, not internet junkies that think they have mastered Google search and have all the answers. You may think you have all the evidence, but you don't, and even worse some of what you have isn't correct either. I'm sorry if this hurts your pride in any way, I know what you aspire to be and how good it feels when other PIP's pat you on the back and say 'good job', but that's not how it works in the real world thank goodness.

 

[RoseMontague]

I also just read that the SC have said that his testimony was reliable.

But I guess when he told the cops a day after the murder he didn't see anything unusual, that statement is not reliable.

 

[RoseMontague]

I'll trust the experts on this I believe, not internet junkies that think they have mastered Google search and have all the answers. You may think you have all the evidence, but you don't, and even worse some of what you have isn't correct either. I'm sorry if this hurts your pride in any way, I know what you aspire to be and how good it feels when other PIP's pat you on the back and say 'good job', but that's not how it works in the real world thank goodness.

Which experts do you trust and which experts do you not trust?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Without knowing who those belong to and talking with them it would be impossible to know, I would think contamination does happen, but is rare, the likelihood of it happening 4 times on the same small piece of material I would think even less likely but then I'm no specialist.

It would be nice to know the identities of the other donors, but it does not change the fact that there are other donors. That is the elephant in the room for the prosecution.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

But I guess when he told the cops a day after the murder he didn't see anything unusual, that statement is not reliable.

It seems they are saying it is reliable, I suppose we shall see. Also, he didn't see anything unusual, had he known where Amanda lived then yes, he did see something unusual.

 

[Grinder]

It's funny that he didn't hear the scream himself. Is it possible that in that part of Perugia there are continual screams at night so this would just be one of the noises he was accustomed to.

If Nara had claimed she heard something that would have given Amanda an alibi she would have been charged with a crime.

As far as contamination is concerned it is the same as chain of custody. If a piece of evidence is not kept properly, then it isn't reliable evidence. The police must keep the records or the evidence is thrown out. When people in LE want to examine evidence they must sign it out and record exactly how it is handled.

In the case of LCN DNA collection methods and lab conditions must meet exacting protocol because of the ease of transfer. When a lab without proper safeguards does LCN in the same lab as the victim's DNA was about in abundant quantities, the test is not valid.

The defense doesn't have to claim contamination or prove it, they need only point out that the evidence wasn't handled properly. The state must show that it was handled properly.

 

[Grinder]

Seeing a couple looking over the rail at a busy intersection with nothing to look at except the gate was probably something he hadn't seen all year. It would easy to connect that unusual sighting when he thought about it. Amanda didn't look or dress like an Italian and stood out as identifiable with Sollecito.

Why didn't he mention that to the detectives when questioned that week?

 

[MDDVS]

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