Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Briars]

You can see the gate clear as day. The men in white would have been up and down the drive up to the gate. Forensic trucks arriving driving past the piazza as well.

 

[anglolawyer]

Curatolo hung out there everyday years before the murder. His outdoor living room , he probably could identify every tree. Add his testimony to all the rest of points in the SC document with the cottage and why not believe he saw them?

Which bits of his testimony are you rejecting in order to make what's left fit with the other evidence?

 

[Grinder]

He was a heroin user who had a routine that included reading the paper in Piazza Grimana. The Piazza is no Piazza San Marco. Its empty, used to play basketball but not a pleasant place to hang out. A couple any couple seen looking at traffic and the cottage gate by the rail would stand out. Anyone there after 9 pm would stand out in a crowd of 5 or 6 at the most. Most important is that Curatolo remembered the men in white the next day. Accustomed noise like buses present when you hear car traffic where you sit is far less important to get wrong. I have no doubt that he remembered seeing a couple looking over the rail and was a little curious as to what held their attention. He read his paper and happened to note them there at different times, why wouldn't he , there wouldn't be much else to look at?

Why did he "remember" the disco buses?

Why did he tell the investigating detectives shortly after the murder that he had seen nothing unusual?

Did he give an interview with a cub reporter that talked him and several people into becoming "witnesses"?

Did the prosecution reveal that there was an outstanding heroin dealing charge against Curatolo?

Did Curatolo say he didn't understand at all why he was being prosecuted for the heroin dealing?

Did his testimony start with the kids being there from 9:30 to shortly before midnight and then become 9:30 to 11 or 11:30 but only seen a few times during that period?

He reported that he was reading and smoking in the plaza. Do you think these unusual characters arguing in an animated fashion (he didn't hear the language that was Antonella Monacchia) wouldn't attract his attention more than a few times?

If the same type of character had come forward 9 months after the fact, one who had provided alibis in the past, admitted to being high that night and described the scene incorrectly with an alibi for the kids would you believe it? No way.

 

[Grinder]

Curatolo hung out there everyday years before the murder. His outdoor living room , he probably could identify every tree. Add his testimony to all the rest of points in the SC document with the cottage and why not believe he saw them?

Although I haven't seen proof that he testified in two other murder cases for Mignini it has been shown that he did testify in other cases for some prosecutor(s).

Do you think that he might be used because it is hard to prove he didn't see this or that because he, in fact, is sitting outside most of the time. The prosecutors wouldn't pick someone that worked inside all day would they?

I don't believe anyone that told the police they hadn't seen anything and only came forward after being in a newspaper or TV story. Having that person being on heroin and a charge for dealing hanging over his head would just diminish his credibility further.

What characteristics and circumstance would cause you to have doubts?

 

[Briars]

The facts are almost no one uses that square except to play basketball. Curatolo sat there everyday. Accustomed noise like buses , or anything we hear daily fail to stand out. He would have learned of the murder the next day by talk over his espresso at the bar near the square and /or seeing activity heading down the hill. Happening to see a couple the night before on and off would not raise alarm bells initially. If they were looking for a couple the next day maybe but that wasn't the case. How high can you be if you can read or take interest in a daily paper? Habitual uses often just manage to take the edge off but have a harder time really getting high. Again because a couple in the square was unusual thinking back he remembered seeing one. The fact that he saw them at different times probably meant they came and went and returned. The view from the gate would be the only logical place to stand to observe the cottage from a safe distance to determine when it was safe to return or if anyone was alerted to the scream and might investigate. The fact that Curatolo knew the daily activities of the square intimately and the rail under the trees offered a somewhat hidden view to the gate trumps any other reason to not believe him.He is coherent when interviewed. More important his testimony is just one piece out of many that point to the guilt of the defendants. I would expect him to see them in the square but not make the connection initially. I believe they would have found the square the perfect spot to safely view the cottage. Grimana was empty why would they pay attention to the local 'tramp" who was always there?

 

[Grinder]

The facts are almost no one uses that square except to play basketball. Curatolo sat there everyday. Accustomed noise like buses , or anything we hear daily fail to stand out. He would have learned of the murder the next day by talk over his espresso at the bar near the square and /or seeing activity heading down the hill. Happening to see a couple the night before on and off would not raise alarm bells initially. If they were looking for a couple the next day maybe but that wasn't the case. How high can you be if you can read or take interest in a daily paper? Habitual uses often just manage to take the edge off but have a harder time really getting high. Again because a couple in the square was unusual thinking back he remembered seeing one. The fact that he saw them at different times probably meant they came and went and returned. The view from the gate would be the only logical place to stand to observe the cottage from a safe distance to determine when it was safe to return or if anyone was alerted to the scream and might investigate. The fact that Curatolo knew the daily activities of the square intimately and the rail under the trees offered a somewhat hidden view to the gate trumps any other reason to not believe him.He is coherent when interviewed. More important his testimony is just one piece out of many that point to the guilt of the defendants. I would expect him to see them in the square but not make the connection initially. I believe they would have found the square the perfect spot to safely view the cottage. Grimana was empty why would they pay attention to the local 'tramp" who was always there?

He was the only piece of "evidence" that put them out of the flat.

He had them there well before the murder per ILE. He had them there at the time the scream was heard.

He was adamant that the disco buses were there that night.

He never picked them out of a line up.

You and the rest of the PGP would be laughing and making photo-shopped pictures of him, had he testified in the kids' favor. The PGP would be calling the Perugian Park Department demanding his removal from the plaza.

PGP even accused the employee at the mini-mart of lying because she had once worked for Raf and they alluded to Popovich lying about stopping by Raf's that night.

Read about the effects of long term and short term opiate use. It's a dream state.

 

[Dan O.]

wow... so you ignore all the evidence presented from the defense?

But, but, Sherlock must have seen all of the evidence presented at the trial otherwise he couldn't make statements like "why was it not bright up at trial".

 

[Dan O.]

You can see the gate clear as day. The men in white would have been up and down the drive up to the gate. Forensic trucks arriving driving past the piazza as well.

You can see the gate from one tiny location well away from Curatolo's park bench. The men suited up on the cottage porch. The whole idea of these suits is to limit outside contamination entering the crime scene. They are not supposed to be worn while wandering around or on the drive to the scene. But then, these are ILE.

 

[MattJones]

The house had to have a wireless router somewhere, it seems to me. And from what I read, the firewall on the router could have recorded internet traffic.

Was the router ever recovered?
Could it be mined to show time of traffic?

Bump.

My IT guys say the wireless router in the apartment might have recorded log on attempts. That could add to the timeline. Anyone know if it was recovered?

Also, I ask a similar question about the router at RS's place. If it showed active logons well into the night, then that would be pretty important evidence.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Answer=no. The defence need only put the state to proof of the reliability of any DNA evidence. It doesn't (or shouldn't) have to claim anything.

If the defense claims contamination, they should then have to prove it, how does that sound.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sherlock - I'm afraid you will think me impolite, just after saying I was polite....

Knox NEVER said she lost her memory. She has always known she was at Raffaele's What is at issue is more garden-variety; while at her boyfriends and indulging in marijuana, neither she nor Raffaele can provide a minute by minute accounting for what they did when they stayed at his apartment.

Did the pipe-drain break before or after dinner? That's what is referred to when guilters (or cops) press them for little inconsistencies.

To my knowledge, neither she nor Raffaele have ever claimed amnesia. What they have said consistently is that they are each others' alibi. (With the except of interrgation when they were pressured to remember details of an unremarkable night)... Raffaele couldn't remember if they'd been alone together on Oct 31 or Nov 1, and when he asked for a calendar to straighten it out, the cops refused him a calendar and one cop threatened to beat him.

I'm sorry, but at some point these myths have to stop. They have never claimed amnesia. They have had exceptionally minor inconsistencies of when pipes broke in relation to when the dishes were done and dinner was served. All stuff that has nothing to do with the horrid events at the cottage.

Sorry if I'm rude.

You say she never claimed to have lost her memory, but what about the prison nun she saw and then claimed her memory returned to her and she knew what she had done that night.

 

[RoseMontague]

If the defense claims contamination, they should then have to prove it, how does that sound.

The prosecution has to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt. All the defense needs to do is show a reasonable chance of contamination to introduce reasonable doubt.

 

[Dan O.]

He had them there well before the murder per ILE. He had them there at the time the scream was heard.

It's funny that he didn't hear the scream himself. Is it possible that in that part of Perugia there are continual screams at night so this would just be one of the noises he was accustomed to.

 

[Briars]

You can see the gate from one tiny location well away from Curatolo's park bench. The men suited up on the cottage porch. The whole idea of these suits is to limit outside contamination entering the crime scene. They are not supposed to be worn while wandering around or on the drive to the scene. But then, these are ILE.

The cottage is just around the corner from Grimana , coffee bars a busy intersection. Don't you think there were sirens, lots of vehicles and activity passing by that afternoon and long into the evening? The local bar would have been a buzz.

 

[Briars]

Seeing a couple looking over the rail at a busy intersection with nothing to look at except the gate was probably something he hadn't seen all year. It would easy to connect that unusual sighting when he thought about it. Amanda didn't look or dress like an Italian and stood out as identifiable with Sollecito.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Curatolo hung out there everyday years before the murder. His outdoor living room , he probably could identify every tree. Add his testimony to all the rest of points in the SC document with the cottage and why not believe he saw them?

Why not believe him when he said that he did not see them?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

But, but, Sherlock must have seen all of the evidence presented at the trial otherwise he couldn't make statements like "why was it not bright up at trial".

I may have to quit communicating with you if you proceed to make things up like this, just letting you know.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

If the defense claims contamination, they should then have to prove it, how does that sound.

With respect, this is not a rebuttal to the many comments that have addressed the contamination issue even in the last day.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

wow... so you ignore all the evidence presented from the defense?

Have you read the C&V report....all traces show NO BLOOD from the Knife, the Bra clasp has a mountain of issues and cannot be used, and should never have been allowed in the trail. Thats just for the two Main pieces of Evidence.

The knife was studied by all parties present , ordered by Hellman. It was found to not have been cleaned and no blood present.

but I get the impression, you dont accept any of this info. most PG's dont.

This C&V report you talk about, it that the one that was just thrown out of court? I'm willing to bet that both those pieces are about to find there way back into the trial very shortly. It is no longer a vantage point to talk about Hillman or C&V or anything else from that appeal except the only thing the SC accepted.

 

[RoseMontague]

Seeing a couple looking over the rail at a busy intersection with nothing to look at except the gate was probably something he hadn't seen all year. It would easy to connect that unusual sighting when he thought about it. Amanda didn't look or dress like an Italian and stood out as identifiable with Sollecito.

Pictures I have seen of the residents of the cottage show them wearing the usual stuff like jeans and t-shirts including the Italian girls.

So they were there for between 2 and three hours according to the now deceased, heroin addicted, drug dealing homeless park bench bum. What were they waiting for and how does it fit about when Rudy was in the cottage? What is your theory, when did they go over to the cottage, etc?