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Proving the Aurora Theater Shooting's official story false

So, why again would this keep a football team from interfering with the massacre in the next theater? Are you arguing that a hissing noise, the sound of fireworks, flashes of light, and a woman whose leg was warm is more intimidating than a man with several guns firing away at a crowd? Got anything else?
 
So, why again would this keep a football team from interfering with the massacre in the next theater? Are you arguing that a hissing noise, the sound of fireworks, flashes of light, and a woman whose leg was warm is more intimidating than a man with several guns firing away at a crowd? Got anything else?
Someone tell the conspiracy theorists this is completely normal. Female bodies are warm-blooded like ours and as such are warm to the touch. Someone might need to get out more.
 
In Support of the OP's Information

Admittedly, I've only read this thread and a few pages of another a few years back. So, I'm not able to gauge the value of the forum in whole. If this thread is fairly representative of the greater forum, what we have here is a fussy, analytical type watering hole; an oasis for the keepers (and stiflers) of science no less!

Because my time here will likely be cut short, I'll get my broader critiques on record before addressing the topic of this thread.

Skepticism
Skepticism is a good thing. In fact, I employ it more than belief. "The only thing I know is that I know nothing" is my motto. Truth is easier to disprove. But in deeming something a fallacy one is claiming to to have arrived at a kind of truth; the truth of a fallacy.

In my experience, the person claiming to be "skeptical" of a conspiracy is likely to be skeptical of all conspiracies. Doubt 9/11 conspiracies and you're not likely to suspect Oswald was Hoover's most important agent or that he was involved in cancer research. Why do certain people doubt even the conspiracies backed by credible evidence? Because they're dupes, and it's tragic.

Being a skeptic doesn't guarantee you'll have a good job, the respect of peers or any friends at all really. But, if you're a "good skeptic" who only snickers at conspiracies involving institutional authority you can have all these things and more! What will you deny yourself? Scientific breakthroughs, discoveries, self-respect, wonderment.

Introduction to New Ideas
The claims and observances of even the most weak-minded person hold treasures of truth; data that can be used to acquire knowledge. Conversely, the claims made by the most accredited and respected person in a given field can amount to "anti-data" and can set you back immeasurably.

So, when new ideas are presented to you can you be sure that dismissing it is in your best interest? In terms of knowledge acquisition, not in terms of Facebook friends.

OK. You've considered and disregarded the new ideas and can make a case for fallacy. What might you still derive from the exchange? What other goals could you achieve? I see that the goals for many here are often to ridicule the author and further establish the veil of intellectuality. Others seem to be employed to run interference for groups seeking to conceal the truth. I disregard those people, as there's not much to achieve on either end of disinformation. There are those in pursuit of other goals, but these are the most common amongst "skeptics". IMO.

What about setting a goal to avoid ridicule of others, in agreement or not? How might that benefit you? How might that benefit all parties? Why do so few "skeptics", quick to offer a quip and a giggle find it beneficial to enlighten the other party? Is intellectual debate really just a more complicated form of survival of the fittest? It's us against them? There will always be idiots, and I don't want that to rub off on me!?

And lastly on this topic, (and this is meant to hurt a little) how much better are you than a confused conspiracy theorist if you're unable to convince them of your counter-claims?

Proving the Theater Shooting Account False (events in theater 8)
The OP doesn't claim to have a theory. His primary claim appears to be "proving the official story false." He does claim that explosives went off, and that may be more difficult to prove. But, I don't wish to prove that. If it can be proven, then I hope it leads to removing "truth's protective layers." The evidence I've compiled convince me that the official account is a cartoonish made-for-tv myth with only 30% of the official account being accurate, roughly.

Why can't I just accept that the account of events in theater 8 are mostly true? If I had only the evidence specific to theater 8 and none of the related evidence, I'd be more inclined but still have suspicions. But much evidence exists, unrelated to theater 8 that reads like a toddler's excuse for vandalizing the kitchen wall! In short, I'd be embarrassed if I didn't suspect deception.

Sticking to the topic, I noticed that some of you have asked what the desired outcome was supposed to be. I could respect someone asking that question with a genuine interest in the response, but not if they're making the response a requirement. I definitely don't respect someone asking the question sprinkled with insults.

Seriously? Is it even possible that the learned members of this forum are not aware of Gladio? Dirty war? What is preventing the very same actors involved in tearing apart the social and economic fabric of other nations from doing the same in Colorado?

The Notebook
So, you may have heard about the reports quoting "official sources" that a notebook was found belonging to James Holmes in which was drawings depicting the theater massacre. Of course, the notebook was reportedly mailed only 1 day before the event. That was revised to earlier in the same day. Maybe it was mailed after the event? Naahhh! The notebook reportedly sat, undelivered in the mailroom at UC for quite a while. AAANNND, the investigators stumbled upon it while they happened to be there for another reason.

OK, it is convenient that the "confession" of sorts was in cartoon form so that handwriting analysis couldn't disprove it as a fraud. But the notebook might actually exist as reported. Later, the defense team made headway in tracking down the source of the notebook "scandal", a Fox News reporter. The reported, Jana Winter said she learned of it from "unnamed law enforcement" sources. I was surprised when a subpoena was issued for her to appear on the matter.

Wouldn't you know it, she's based in New York where shield laws protect news sources! So, it's unlikely that she'll even appear in court.

Can you count all of the amazing coincidences that converge like a recipe for authorities to conceal their lies? But, I remain "skeptical." Skeptical of a government conspiracy to stage a shooting and skeptical of the government's use of secrecy and claims of authority.

The Secret CCTV Footage
Speaking of secrecy, is it customary to withhold all CCTV footage in cases like this? I've seen hidden-camera video of a nanny punching a baby filmed in a private residence broadcast on the evening news. Yet, we don't even get a 10 second glimpse of Holmes at the snack counter?

Astonishing Accuracy
From what the "official" reports indicate, the "shooter" had an astonishing rate of accuracy with most bullets at least wounding a person. In all, 70 people were shot. The 100-round magazine reportedly jammed after 30-40 rounds were discharged. Official sources say they found 76 shells from 3 guns at the scene.

Yet, James Holmes the sharpshooter sent rounds into the adjacent theater? Those rounds would not have been from either a shotgun or Glock pistol, as the main dividing wall is substantial based on the building plans I obtained. Are those witness statements of secondary shooters beginning to make more sense?

Reports of Substantial Damage in Theater 8
To support the OP's data, two witnesses in theater 8 reported seeing "explosives" and "substantial" damage to the short wall flanking a staircase.

Lastly, CS gas grenades aren't easy to obtain outside of LE and hard to synthesize.
 
I a just going to address the astonishing accuracy claim. Fish in a barrel. It was spray and pray in that theatre and he would have been hard pressed to miss. First firing a 12 gauge, then an assault rifle, and finally a glock semi auto. He didn't even need to aim given the close and crowded proximity of a full movie theatre.

That rounds exited into the next theatre is also not a suprise.


The ops theory is that the official story is a lie. He has not presented any evidence to support that theory and neither have you.


ETA: as far as camera footage is concerned do you even know what cameras, what type, and where in the theatre? Also I have a feeling that any video would be dismissed as fake by you and the OP.
 
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... "the OP doesn't claim to have a theory..."

Yet he clearly mentioned a theory about how the "explosions" in theatre 8 were to keep a football team from doing... something... Something he/she really doesn't want to explain.
 
The Secret CCTV Footage
Speaking of secrecy, is it customary to withhold all CCTV footage in cases like this? I've seen hidden-camera video of a nanny punching a baby filmed in a private residence broadcast on the evening news. Yet, we don't even get a 10 second glimpse of Holmes at the snack counter?
We've seen CCTV footage of the 9/11 hijackers passing through airport security and you're still making conspiracy claims about those events. But seeing "a 10 second glimpse of Holmes at the snack counter" would convince you that the official story is true? Nice contradiction. :rolleyes:
 
The Secret CCTV Footage
Speaking of secrecy, is it customary to withhold all CCTV footage in cases like this? I've seen hidden-camera video of a nanny punching a baby filmed in a private residence broadcast on the evening news. Yet, we don't even get a 10 second glimpse of Holmes at the snack counter?

If you have seen hidden-camera video of crimes that is because the owner of the camera provided the film to the television station. The theater owners are not required to turn over video to the press. Furthermore, the matter may be completely out of their hands: perhaps the law enforcement agencies seized the footage.


I'll ask you the same question I asked the OPer.
If five different eyewitnesses produce five conflicting reports of what happened, how does one decide which one is the most accurate.

...............

As for the ridicule, when a poster is asked over ten times to succinctly state his theory and continuously refuses to do so, then there is little reason to take the poster seriously. We have a poster that wants to argue about flash grenades without even stating why flash grenades reports are important enough to consider in the first place

We are six pages in and still have no idea why the alleged football team is relevant in any way.
 
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Because my time here will likely be cut short,

Why do you think your time here will be cut short?

Are you implying that you expect to be banned or are you stating that you will cut yourself short because you don't have enough time to spend on boards like this one?
 
I agree with the "fish in a barrel" analogy, somewhat. I differ on whether I've provided "any" evidence to support the theory that the official story is a lie.

Often times, I become frustrated with the requirement some have that I prove the official account or some alternative theory. I suspect those folks are probably referring to a scientific truth. I don't think such a thing exists in the case of institutional corruption, especially those involving social or psychological factors that may be woven in to complicate things.

But, I'm not so dense to miss the opportunity offered to at least "convince" the individual of my suspicions. I would bet they would accept being "convinced" over scientific "proof." I simply cannot prove anything, as I avoid belief in anything in favor of suspicion or consideration. Does that render my input pointless? That depends on your priorities. Do you want to learn something or re-learn what constitutes proof? Ahhhh.

Maybe seeing the official account of events as false might be easier by restricting the analysis to just the media reports of the event?

Does anyone believe that Holmes said something to the effect of, "I'm the Joker?" It was reported by numerous sources. They all chose to run with it. Why? It wasn't because the official account was factual.

Every single MSM outlet chose to report the arrest of Holmes in very similar ways and using very similar language. Most stated his arrest occurred "by his car." In contrast, the independent media mostly reported his arrest "after breaking the windows of his vehicle, in which he was found barely conscious." No MSM report bothered to factor in this "unofficial" account, despite it matching the available evidence. Not to mention that, Holmes being arrested while simply standing by his vehicle with apparent lack of urgency or exhibiting excitement is highly unusual. Why not simply report this different theory? It wasn't because the official account was more believable.

Easily obtainable lease docs for the apartment Holmes is said to have lived at showed he had only lived there less than a month by the time of the shooting. Yet, the MSM never addressed this as an inconsistency. Instead, they often reported very detailed accounts of his amassing an arsenal and other events spanning months in the very apartment he didn't live at. I know not all reporters were simply reporting from a press release, so why didn't they report his short tenancy? It wasn't because the official account was consistent with this evidence.

Literally dozens of detailed MSM reports appeared that each stated Holmes had his university access withdrawn either because of concerns over his mental health or he had dropped out after failing an oral exam. My personal analysis of the court-provided access logs show Holmes accessing the university in a regular pattern at least 5 days a week up until only 1 week of the theater event. To my knowledge, nobody has come forward as the source of this false account. If the MSM had access to the logs as I did, why did no report include these facts that conflicted with the more titillating version? It wasn't because an official statement existed to fall back on.

I could literally go on for another 20 or 30 examples. If I were to do so and each point was at least valid, would you personally begin to question how all of this could be true and the official account of events be true at the same time?

In other words, at what point might you begin to doubt your over-arching view of not just this event, BUT the greater scheme of divergent perspectives (propagandists vs. anti-authoritarians)?
 
Maybe seeing the official account of events as false might be easier by restricting the analysis to just the media reports of the event?
Do you think this kind of arbitrary restriction has any place in a conscientious investigation?
 
Maybe when you provide a source for your claims or can produce some physical evidence that refutes the events as we understand them having occurred. So far you have presented us with claims and an incredulous attitude, that's not evidence.

You can't post post links yet wit write them out as www dot thisismysource dot com and someone here will link it for you.

Looking a only at the media reports will give you a skewed and inaccurate picture, that is why we look at all the evidence. Media outlets are in a race to report, this race causes a lot of fact checking to be ignored. It is shameful and irresponsible but its not evidence of anything other than their desire to be first.
 
I can't resist pointing out that the footage you observed of Atta and accomplice was first reported to have been from an early-morning flight out of Maine. Later, persistence forced the FBI to reveal the footage to have been from a flight fully 2 weeks before 9/11.

So, you see there's no end to my "conspiracy claims." :) BTW, my library of data-points (considerations) on the 9/11 events is encyclopedic. Thankfully, I'm not very abrasive and actually like the opportunity to share the info I possess.

HOWEVER, I share in your likely disappointment in how little the 9/11 truth movement actually has awareness of. So, I recommend almost total filtration of most 9/11 theories and suggest sticking to uncommon perspectives; like that of an outraged building inspector or a caterer who catered a meeting of media execs the night before 9/11...or an airline systems analyst who never before observed a flight reported without a trail of systems data in the system he worked with for over a decade - until 9/11.

When you accumulate some of this rarely viewed information, you might find yourself reading the words of Usama bin Laden or listening to Hitler lectures. I said, "might." I fully accept that I'll probably remain totally backwards on some concepts at least in this lifetime.
 
Why do you think your time here will be cut short?

Are you implying that you expect to be banned or are you stating that you will cut yourself short because you don't have enough time to spend on boards like this one?

Well, in truth the comment was related to the thought that I might be banned. No offense to randi_org. I'm ignorant of any potential words or phrases that are deemed "wrong-hearted" on some forums and have been disappeared. My very first post on ATS was very appreciated........for about 74 minutes! My activity is always limited and my posts thoughtful, so it's kind of a drag.
 
Do you think this kind of arbitrary restriction has any place in a conscientious investigation?

Not at all. I was offering it as an optional exercise that might help to get a better understanding. I don't think understanding is predicated on only factoring in the strictest of authoritative evidence.

I read a paper recently that laid out an almost totally unconventional theory that the Sun is actually waxing in its lifespan and not waning, as is the predominant view of the scientific community. The implications in areas like the age of Earth and other planets is huge. But, with only ancillary and even esoteric points I came away with a better "understanding" of how little is truly known.

Someone will ask for the source, so I'll at least add it was a paper entitled, "Geochronology - Hiding History in the Past" by an author going only by daniel.
 
lol what a hilarious forum, attacking multiple eye witness accounts...

Nobody in their right mind takes you guys seriously, you should know that,... and you probably do.
 
lol what a hilarious forum, attacking multiple eye witness accounts...

Nobody in their right mind takes you guys seriously, you should know that,... and you probably do.

Multiple witnesses can lie through their teeth as a part of a huge conspiracy. The Aurora shooting event was probably totally staged INCLUDING all the witnesses and also all the victims etc. I don't think anybody was killed for real in that event.
 

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