Merged Cold Fusion Claims

[Reality Check]

catalyst in the broad definition is not necessarily the chemical catalyst.
...snipped cold fusion fantasy...

That is correct - there is a magic catalyst in Rossi's device that does nuclear fusion !
There is no credible evidence that cold fusion exists, e.g. the gamma radiation from the fusion has never been detected.

In the article the radiated power is not computed, it is measured !

Wrong: The radiated power is calculated. What is measured is the radiation. That gives the temperature. The standard black body equations are then used to calculate the power. By using an emissivity of 1 they get the maximum power. But real objects have an emissivity of < 1 (about 0.2 for a gray object such as the cylinder).

 

[marting]

That is correct - there is a magic catalyst in Rossi's device that does nuclear fusion !
There is no credible evidence that cold fusion exists, e.g. the gamma radiation from the fusion has never been detected.


Wrong: The radiated power is calculated. What is measured is the radiation. That gives the temperature. The standard black body equations are then used to calculate the power. By using an emissivity of 1 they get the maximum power. But real objects have an emissivity of < 1 (about 0.2 for a gray object such as the cylinder).

Correct but incomplete.
They measured the thermal radiation and used inferred temperature using emissivity of 1.0. That would be "conservative" in the sense that it would understate temperature. And by a lot since most metals have low emissivity.

Then they used that understated set of inferred temperatures to calculate power, also using an emissivity of 1.0. That process overstates radiated power.

It would be nice if they actually calibrated the thing. How hard would it be to stick a thermocouple on it?

 

[henryco]

henryco

Your link is simply an invitation to a conference. It obtains no information except this juicy tidbit. Sounds idyllic. Sorry I missed it.

http://fireball.izmiran.ru/dagomys/previoussite/PK19/RCCNT&BL-19 abstracts.pdf

 

[Reality Check]

http://fireball.izmiran.ru/dagomys/previoussite/PK19/RCCNT&BL-19 abstracts.pdf

And now you have a list of the abstracts presented at this conference. So what, henryco?
What I see is a obscure conference with the weird combination of ball lightning and cold fusion. Some of the topics are obvious crack pottery, e.g. "PROOF OF COLD NUCLEAR FUSION IN TECTONIC FAULTS IN ARCHAEOLOGY" !

 

[henryco]

That is correct - there is a magic catalyst in Rossi's device that does nuclear fusion !
There is no credible evidence that cold fusion exists, e.g. the gamma radiation from the fusion has never been detected.


Wrong: The radiated power is calculated. What is measured is the radiation. That gives the temperature. The standard black body equations are then used to calculate the power. By using an emissivity of 1 they get the maximum power. But real objects have an emissivity of < 1 (about 0.2 for a gray object such as the cylinder).

But what property of the radiation is measured?
answer: it's power
from this power the software computes power emitted by the surface (optical geometry) and then from it the temperature of the surface thanks to the stefan boltzmann law assuming a given emissivity.

then from this temp you can get back power emitted by the surface,
thus the effect of the emissivity cancels at the end, just because what you measured from the begining was power and not temperature

 

[Craig B]

http://fireball.izmiran.ru/dagomys/previoussite/PK19/RCCNT&BL-19 abstracts.pdf

Some interesting issues raised in the abstracts on that site. Here's A V Shestopalov outlining a theory with which he seems thankfully not to agree. He says transmutation can explain the phenomena.

A.Yu.Kushelev answered the question that I used as a name of this paper. According to his theory aliens from other planets have been extracting precious metals from wellheads. They used megaliths as evaporators - microwave resonators which get energy from the ether.

Exciting stuff.

ETA Sorry, Reality Check. I see you got there first!

 

[Reality Check]

May be the best paper to start to learn about this is:
Urutskoev L.I., Liksonov V.I. Observation of transformation of chemical elements during electric discharge
arXivhysics/papers/0101089.pdf

Urutskoev L.I., Liksonov V.I. Observation of transformation of chemical elements during electric discharge published Prikladnaya Fizika (Applied Physics, in Russian), 2000, vol.4, pp. 83-100.

henryco:
Let me introduce you to a simple technique to found out whether a paper is probably valid. Ask the questions

• Has it been cited?
• Where?
• How much?

In this case there is no evidence that the paper has been cited in the 13 years (since it was published, not even by its own authors!).
N.B. This is via the "References & Citations" of the arXiv page.

 

[henryco]

Urutskoev L.I., Liksonov V.I. Observation of transformation of chemical elements during electric discharge published Prikladnaya Fizika (Applied Physics, in Russian), 2000, vol.4, pp. 83-100.

henryco:
Let me introduce you to a simple technique to found out whether a paper is probably valid. Ask the questions

• Has it been cited?
• Where?
• How much?

In this case there is no evidence that the paper has been cited in the 13 years (since it was published, not even by its own authors!).
N.B. This is via the "References & Citations" of the arXiv page.

your simple technique is not very efficient in this case.
For instance
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0801/0801.2752.pdf
(and i could find many others)
refers to the article.
Why this citation is not taken into account by the arxiv tool? i dont know for sure...

 

[Kid Eager]

But what property of the radiation is measured?
answer: it's power
from this power the software computes power emitted by the surface (optical geometry) and then from it the temperature of the surface thanks to the stefan boltzmann law assuming a given emissivity.

then from this temp you can get back power emitted by the surface,
thus the effect of the emissivity cancels at the end, just because what you measured from the begining was power and not temperature

not according to what I've read - the energy is measured, not the power.

 

[Aepervius]

henryco, where did you get that there is any sparking mechanism in the damn apparatus by rossi ? It is quite clear from the experimental method presentation that there are only resistor around a steel tube. Nothing going inside. SAme as for the steam-whiff producer previous device. Only resistors.

Are you pretending that they lie on the setup of apparatus tested ? Because that's funny. Furthermore comparing ball lighting to electron degenerate matter ? Hu ?
Anyway it does not matter if they indeed using spark things, because of all the problem indicated in the previous pages. Where is the gamma, henryco ?

As for the rest, I think it has been picked up by everybody else. Alien megalithe transmutation device ? LOL.

 

[Aepervius]

your simple technique is not very efficient in this case.
For instance
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0801/0801.2752.pdf
(and i could find many others)
refers to the article.
Why this citation is not taken into account by the arxiv tool? i dont know for sure...

I think he was speaking of citation in published papers, not citation in arxiv.

 

[henryco]

I think he was speaking of citation in published papers, not citation in arxiv.

The author (G Lochak) in general published his articles in Annales de la Fondation Louis de Broglie.

You cannot expect LENR to be published in any other journal than a LENR dedicated or very Non-Aligned journal just because the words LENR or cold fusion belong to the filters applied by all famous journals : this is because cold fusion was discredited on purpose from the begining to be exclusively taken over
for military applications.

But i consider it might be a chance because then you are obliged to read and understand yourself to make up your own mind and not rely on any exterior scientific authority.

 

[henryco]

not according to what I've read - the energy is measured, not the power.

Energy per second = power

 

[henryco]

henryco, where did you get that there is any sparking mechanism in the damn apparatus by rossi ? It is quite clear from the experimental method presentation that there are only resistor around a steel tube. Nothing going inside. SAme as for the steam-whiff producer previous device. Only resistors.

Are you pretending that they lie on the setup of apparatus tested ? Because that's funny. Furthermore comparing ball lighting to electron degenerate matter ? Hu ?
Anyway it does not matter if they indeed using spark things, because of all the problem indicated in the previous pages. Where is the gamma, henryco ?

As for the rest, I think it has been picked up by everybody else. Alien megalithe transmutation device ? LOL.

Defkalion did not invent a new reactor. They simply got all the Rossi receipe (their Boss explained somewhere that they analyzed the content without him noticing) and several monthes later they came with their own design where sparkplugs play a central role (so central that at the begining they tried to hide it). (1)
Now rossi says that he has a trigger working 30% of the time with a special waveform to excite it : i'm not inventing it , ok? (2)

Then you consider (1) and (2), you read the Defkalion article published last summer (3) you start your brain processor on the data : (1) (2) and (3),and you are naturally led to likely other possibilities than the chemical catalyst....
a sparkplug can be very small and quiet, even the independent journalists which first attended Defkalion demonstrations hardly heared it...

Not any ball lightning compresses it's content to the huge densities of degenerate matter: most of them evaporates very fast (even explosively) before. However in some conditions you can have a micro ball lightning trapped in ferromagnetic sites (a kind of magnetic trapp) where it is compressed very slowly and will end in the extremely dense and compact and remaining rather cold object from which most high energy radiations are not allowed to escape even in case of multibody nuclear reactions. Read my thermodynamic analysis of an mbl in my article...this fate is what you expect if the compressure power injected in the slowly collapsing object is smaller than the radiated power : then no heat accumulates inside!

 

[henryco]

Some interesting issues raised in the abstracts on that site. Here's A V Shestopalov outlining a theory with which he seems thankfully not to agree. He says transmutation can explain the phenomena. Exciting stuff.

ETA Sorry, Reality Check. I see you got there first!

As you might have noticed the alien theory is not the one that is defended by the author in this conference. AT the contrary the alien theory is just mentionned here to make people realize how much such kind of observation would be difficult to understand without LENR.
In this kind of small conference where almost all participants know each other the athmosphere is much more relaxed that in main stream science conferences: in other words as we would say in france: not anybody is obliged to come there with a stick in the ass. I can easily imagine that the alien theory was exposed to make the assistance laugh a little bit. That's just more sympathetic , dont worry too much about this !

 

[Aepervius]

Defkalion did not invent a new reactor. They simply got all the Rossi receipe (their Boss explained somewhere that they analyzed the content without him noticing) and several monthes later they came with their own design where sparkplugs play a central role (so central that at the begining they tried to hide it). (1)
Now rossi says that he has a trigger working 30% of the time with a special waveform to excite it : i'm not inventing it , ok? (2)

Rossi himself mention only resistor.
Defkalion has nothing. Rossi gave them nothing and they both quickly pretended to be separated. Defkalion has shown nothing whatsoever so far. At least Rossi gives us a spectacle.

Then you consider (1) and (2), you read the Defkalion article published last summer (3) you start your brain processor on the data : (1) (2) and (3),and you are naturally led to likely other possibilities than the chemical catalyst....

Yes, like the possibility they are pulling it out of thin air, which considering the history of defkalion, and how long they pretended to have something is quite a possibility.

a sparkplug can be very small and quiet, even the independent journalists which first attended Defkalion demonstrations hardly heared it...

Who care/spoke about noise or even journalist ? Call me back when they give a mass spectra analyzis of the starting material and the "ashes" thru independent researcher. Or even a full complete independent test.

Not any ball lightning compresses it's content to the huge densities of degenerate matter: most of them evaporates very fast (even explosively) before. However in some conditions you can have a micro ball lightning trapped in ferromagnetic sites (a kind of magnetic trapp) where it is compressed very slowly and will end in the extremely dense and compact and remaining rather cold object from which most high energy radiations are not allowed to escape even in case of multibody nuclear reactions. Read my thermodynamic analysis of an mbl in my article...this fate is what you expect if the compressure power injected in the slowly collapsing object is smaller than the radiated power : then no heat accumulates inside!

Excuse the sarcasm but I have followed both Rossi Defkalion for a long time enough to require independent verification. They both have been caught lying at many time. I don't care about any made up theory on the spot, until independent result are gotten. Or as a friend said, until we get one as a generator at walmart.

 

[Aepervius]

As you might have noticed the alien theory is not the one that is defended by the author in this conference. AT the contrary the alien theory is just mentionned here to make people realize how much such kind of observation would be difficult to understand without LENR.
In this kind of small conference where almost all participants know each other the athmosphere is much more relaxed that in main stream science conferences: in other words as we would say in france: not anybody is obliged to come there with a stick in the ass. I can easily imagine that the alien theory was exposed to make the assistance laugh a little bit. That's just more sympathetic , dont worry too much about this !

"main stream science conferences"
"come there with a stick in the ass"

Okkkkay.

 

[Dancing David]

these objects are just like microscopic stars except that it's not the usual gravitational potential that confines all it's matter content.

That just is silly, do you know about the Coulomb barrier in fusion and why the pressure gradient and huge number of atoms at the hot core of the star matter.

This is just made up nonsense.

SInce nuclear transmutations take place inside these objects,

Whoah, stop right there, what exact nuclear transmutations and at what levels, you left out all the data.

 

[tsig]

the author (g lochak) in general published his articles in annales de la fondation louis de broglie.

You cannot expect lenr to be published in any other journal than a lenr dedicated or very non-aligned journal just because the words lenr or cold fusion belong to the filters applied by all famous journals : this is because cold fusion was discredited on purpose from the begining to be exclusively taken over for military applications.
but i consider it might be a chance because then you are obliged to read and understand yourself to make up your own mind and not rely on any exterior scientific authority.

oookaaay.

 

[henryco]

Rossi himself mention only resistor.

Well , a strange resistor producing more energy than it consumes:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/05/a-correction-makes-a-difference-in-cat-and-mouse-discussion/

Our basic module is made by an apparatus in which we have 2 components: an activator, which consumes about 900 Wh/h and produces about 910 Wh/h of heat. This heat activates the E-Cat and then goes to the utilization by the Customer, so that its cost is paid back by itself. This activator stays in function for the 35% of the operational time of the syspem of the apparatus. The E-Cat, activated by the heat of the Activator, works for about the 65% of the operational time, producing about 10 kWh/h without consuming any Wh/h from the grid.

Defkalion has nothing.

they pretend to have this (see slide 32 for the performances)

http://aromapress.com/~defkalio/wp-...n-Technical-presentation_-J-Hadjichristos.pdf

explained in somewhat more details in :

http://aromapress.com/~defkalio/wp-...ichristos-Technical-Characteristics-Paper.pdf

almost the same performances as Rossi's e-cat, the same kind of techno (Ni-H) just a few monthes after the "separation".

Rossi gave them nothing and they both quickly pretended to be separated.

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3353181.ece

Defkalion has shown nothing whatsoever so far. At least Rossi gives us a spectacle.

science does not need spectacle