Looking for Skeptics

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abaddon said:
I would like to see alderbanks version of that.
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It wasn't really a deadline. flaccon proposed 5pm Sunday and we were all happy to work towards that but I had said throughout that I would go any time once we had a protocol in place to which all parties were committed. Progress was slow so I proposed rescheduling the test meeting to Monday.

However it came to a sudden end when flaccon revealed that the spirits had confessed to her that they were unable to do anything in any test to show they exist.
 
I think we shouldn't give up hope of a test just yet.

flaccon said the spirits could not read a playing card that nobody was looking at, but she did not say whether they could read a playing card that another person was looking at.


Yes, it does so far appear that the only verifiable facts flaccon can hear the spirits say are facts she already knows, which is strongly indicative of its being nothing more than pareidolia, but there has to be something simple that the spirits are able to perceive which can be tested.
 
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FWIW, here is where I'm at:


Flocon has a website advertising lies about contact with spirits.

The spirits are made up, all in her head.

She uses the idea to sell a séance-like experience, without the traditional props, which she thinks is a selling point.

She targets, quite specifically, the bereaved.

Her other claims are all vague romantic notions about healing and world peace and all the usual garbage.

Most of her facts are not provable, the others change as needed.

Her claims are so similar to previous failures that there is absolutely no need to falsify them again.

She believes in many stupid concepts and "compares notes" with Icke.

She thinks skeptics are idiots and had no idea skeptics would actually know what the hell they're talking about.

With or without mental illness, which appears extremely likely to me, her business is a fraud and is no different than that of Edward, Van Pragh, or the Long Island psycho.

I feel cheap and violated for having wasted my time with this nonsense.

Flocon: Your business is a fraud. A scam. Garbage. Rubbish if you prefer. Through your website, you lie to yourself and others daily. This is a despicable business you’re in. I for one would be quite ashamed of this line of work. I hope your site gets shut down before it makes a dime. You’re dead to me. Okaybye.
 
I'm disappointed to find that not only has no progress been made towards an acceptable protocol but we've actually gone backwards, with flaccon essentially admitting that there is no way for her claims to be objectively tested. It might still be worth Alderbank visiting flaccon to listen to her recordings and report back on whether they are as impressive as she claims, but there's clearly no point in her applying for the ASKE or JREF prize.
 
flaccon said:
Then there is nothing more I can really say here. Their ability is not what you expect it to be.
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I'm not expecting them to have any abilities at all.
But that's not the issue. We'd like to have one or more claims of specific abilities that are possible to test.
We don't know much about spirits, that's true. But it's not helpful for you to tell us what their abilities aren't. "They aren't what you expect it to be."
"They can't do card tricks."
For anyone and anything, there's an infinite number of things that don't describe them. Tell us what their abilities are. Or what you perceive them to be.
Something that they can do every time without you knowing the answer, and that is objectively verifiable. We don't care if it's useful. Just repeatable.
Doesn't have to be difficult for them or you. Just repeatable.
 
SezMe said:
OK, the test is not going to happen. If I was local, I'd agree to meet with her, no protocol at all. I'd go just to observe the process and listen to the results. Remember, she has stated the spirits speak in complete sentences in an "unmistaken" manner. I think even a no-protocol test demonstration could disprove her claims.
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I think a no-protocol demonstration could result in me being added to the list of witnesses.

flaccon says Skype is excellent. I often use it to talk to family in California. You could Skype flaccon, observe the process and listen to the results.
 
Pixel42 said:
It might still be worth Alderbank visiting flaccon to listen to her recordings and report back on whether they are as impressive as she claims, but there's clearly no point in her applying for the ASKE or JREF prize.
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I would be extremely surprised if they were, given that there have already been examples in this thread which sounded like nothing but background noise.
 
flaccon,

There has been mention of a letter from your GP. Is that something you can share with some or all of us?
 
TjW said:
I'm not expecting them to have any abilities at all.
But that's not the issue. We'd like to have one or more claims of specific abilities that are possible to test.
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It's been claimed that they can read, as they have laughed at posts in this thread. However, when it came to testing their ability to read, it turns out that they can't.

Perhaps there's some way we could test their ability to change sound files after they've been recorded? This could be done by using an external recorder to record the sounds of playback, then play the same clip back several times, with flaccon confirming that the answer was different each time.

This would have to be done somewhere where total silence is possible and where the recording could be very controlled, so there would need to be the hire of a recording studio, or something similar. Then the waveforms of the recordings could be compared visually to see how different they are, if at all.

Seems rather expensive, and reliant on what will end up being subjective criteria, but if the sounds are easily discernible and truly contain different words, then the waveforms should look markedly different. You could even compare what the spirits are saying with a waveform of someone else saying the same thing. I've done a fair bit of speech and vocal editing in my time, and different words have recognisable shapes, even when spoken by different people with different accents. So there should be marked similarities between the waveforms generated by recording the spirits and a waveform generated by recording someone saying the same phrase into a microphone.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's been claimed that they can read, as they have laughed at posts in this thread. However, when it came to testing their ability to read, it turns out that they can't.

Perhaps there's some way we could test their ability to change sound files after they've been recorded? This could be done by using an external recorder to record the sounds of playback, then play the same clip back several times, with flaccon confirming that the answer was different each time.

This would have to be done somewhere where total silence is possible and where the recording could be very controlled, so there would need to be the hire of a recording studio, or something similar. Then the waveforms of the recordings could be compared visually to see how different they are, if at all.

Seems rather expensive, and reliant on what will end up being subjective criteria, but if the sounds are easily discernible and truly contain different words, then the waveforms should look markedly different. You could even compare what the spirits are saying with a waveform of someone else saying the same thing. I've done a fair bit of speech and vocal editing in my time, and different words have recognisable shapes, even when spoken by different people with different accents. So there should be marked similarities between the waveforms generated by recording the spirits and a waveform generated by recording someone saying the same phrase into a microphone.
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Given current events, there is no point investing any further effort in this.
 
Mojo said:
I think the problem is that they can only read things that flaccon can read.
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Just like every demonic possession case turns out to match the beliefs of the victim, and all the information revealed to prophets is in line with the culture of the area where it is recorded. That's also why there are no turkeys or kangaroos in the bible.
 
flaccon,

Now that we know that the spirits cannot do anything that can be tested, please suggest how they can be distinguished from nothing?

IXP
 
IXP said:
flaccon,

Now that we know that the spirits cannot do anything that can be tested, please suggest how they can be distinguished from nothing?
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flaccon did this quite early on. She said they can be distinguished by their voices, which are clear and easy to understand. She offered to play me recordings of them down a landline which I refused. I have no doubt that I would hear voices but I do not consider recordings of a voice to be paranormal.

I'm sure that on request flaccon will play these recordings to other posters down the phone line as evidence of spirits. I think she will hold the phone handset near her Bose speakers.

How would you go about evaluating that 'evidence'?
 
I didn't say the spirit couldn't read. They see cards clearly.
I carried out a test earlier, to see if they could see cards that I couldn't see. They didn't even guess. They just said they can't do that sort of trick. They can clearly be distinguished by replying to conversation.

I have been honest throughout, and have accepted the blind judgement (understandably) But it takes just one of you to check it out and see exactly how it is. Then we know what we're dealing with? work out a protocol to test spirits. They speak like us, its really not as complicated as you all think.

The message tonight loud & clear (Deep voice) "Don't refuse the competition" I played it over the landline, its loud, its recognisable, its obvious, because they speak like us.
 
Alderbank said:
flaccon did this quite early on. She said they can be distinguished by their voices, which are clear and easy to understand. She offered to play me recordings of them down a landline which I refused. I have no doubt that I would hear voices but I do not consider recordings of a voice to be paranormal.

I'm sure that on request flaccon will play these recordings to other posters down the phone line as evidence of spirits. I think she will hold the phone handset near her Bose speakers.

How would you go about evaluating that 'evidence'?
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It can't be evaluated via landline. If my word was taken that I am recording in a sient room (and I am) then via land line, one can hear many voices all talking together, at different levels of volume and control.

Then there are the clearer words that come through in voices I recognise. The only reason for land line listening, is to hear that there are indeed voices in full sentence, worth taking a look at.

Then, to come and see a fresh record being done, for the spirits to introduce themselves, and converse. It really is that simple.
 
flaccon said:
Is there a way to close the threads? or are they just left open?
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There is no way for a poster to close a thread.
Moderators can close threads if the thread breaks down into endless bickering, name calling, and insults.

I wanted to make sure you got a direct and complete answer to your question because I do not want you to think we are rude enough to ignore your questions.
 
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