Looking for Skeptics

[Donn]

I think that's "swing a chicken in a graveyard at midnight during the noon day sun." It gives it that authentic Sure To Be Legit (TM) plus bonus teflon rubber ducking feel, don't ya think?

 

[IXP]

I believe (and hope) that flaccon meant that you (and hopefully Pixel42 and members of her local sceptics group and the one in Chester) would participate in some sort of controlled test.

Ward

I never got that impression at all. I think she has ignored any mention of controlled tests, and is looking forward to demonstrating her phenomenon to whoever shows up in her own way.

IXP

 

[Alderbank]

I believe (and hope) that flaccon meant that you (and hopefully Pixel42 and members of her local sceptics group and the one in Chester) would participate in some sort of controlled test.

Ward

Ward, I said I would go any time of flaccon's choosing and that still stands. I would love to participate in a controlled test.

Could anyone more experienced than me suggest a test that flaccon might agree to?

 

[wardenclyffe]

I never got that impression at all. I think she has ignored any mention of controlled tests, and is looking forward to demonstrating her phenomenon to whoever shows up in her own way.

IXP

Maybe. We shall see. That might not be worth the trip for Pixel42, but for Alderbank and the Chester Sceptics in the Pub group, that might still be a fun field trip. I know that if I were local, I wouldn't be able to resist a visit even if there were no formal test. It'd give me a better handle on what was going on, even if I thought I already knew.

Ward

 

[wardenclyffe]

Ward, I said I would go any time of flaccon's choosing and that still stands. I would love to participate in a controlled test.

Could anyone more experienced than me suggest a test that flaccon might agree to?

I don't know that she has completely dismissed the protocols put forward here. If she has, then I'd want her to make a suggestion for a test protocol.

Ward

 

[Alderbank]

I believe (and hope) that flaccon meant that you (and hopefully Pixel42 and members of her local sceptics group and the one in Chester) would participate in some sort of controlled test.

Ward

Pixel42 you have often referred to this sceptics group in Chester, indeed you suggested that flaccon approach them for testing.

I sometimes go to Sceptics in the Pub at the Head of Steam in Liverpool which is really good, but I did not know there was a similar group in Chester.

Do you have a contact or other information about them?

 

[abaddon]

Ward, I said I would go any time of flaccon's choosing and that still stands. I would love to participate in a controlled test.

Could anyone more experienced than me suggest a test that flaccon might agree to?

At this point, I think flaccon will do her utmost to avoid any and all tests. Here we have members willing to travel to her location. Somehow that does not cut the mustard with flaccon.

Let me up the ante. I will fly there if flaccon can come up with anything. No charges, or fees, or expenses, nothing. It falls to flaccon to provide any compelling reason to do so. So far she has failed to provide anything more than audio feedback amplified out of it's life.

 

[Alderbank]

I don't know that she has completely dismissed the protocols put forward here. If she has, then I'd want her to make a suggestion for a test protocol.

Ward

Her reply was 'I would think it best if we asked the spirits'. As the spirits have not come up with anything yet I wondered whether we could help them with some ideas?

 

[Biscuit]

I don't know how to test the claim that "spirits are communicating through my speakers" but if the claim is "Spirits are communicating through my speakers and can tell me things I could not possibly know" then the cards inside envelopes test should suffice.

So far though the only claim I seem to see is the former and we have tried to hear the spirits but to no avail. So I think we need a clarification as to what the spirits can do or a protocol to determine that there are voices and that those voices belong to spirits.

 

[Pixel42]

I never got that impression at all. I think she has ignored any mention of controlled tests, and is looking forward to demonstrating her phenomenon to whoever shows up in her own way.

That's my impression too, based on comments like this:

Its like this.. they healed me, inform me of greatest mysteries, guide, encourage, and I'm to sit here with bits of coloured card, because that's how "we" do it these days. Do you see how ridiculous this sounds to them?

It appears that "spirits" are not bright enough to grasp the basic principles of the scientific method, or the concept of objective evidence.

Pixel42 you have often referred to this sceptics group in Chester, indeed you suggested that flaccon approach them for testing.

I sometimes go to Sceptics in the Pub at the Head of Steam in Liverpool which is really good, but I did not know there was a similar group in Chester.

Do you have a contact or other information about them?

I gave the link in post #71, here it is again:

http://chester.humanist.org.uk/?page_id=8

I did email them suggesting they might like to consider inviting flaccon to give a demonstration at one of their monthly meetings but received no reply.

 

[aggle-rithm]

It isn't "imagination" at work, I have completely tested for that myself. I have demonstrated to private group of 4 people. a GP with a witness present (Mr Cederberg) A Priest with a witness present (Mr Roberts) and 8 further individuals. All but one confirm most definitely, a spirit-world. All 3 family member's confirm our Father's voice. The person that would not confirm, accused me of staging the voices.

Maybe you should record these people, then play back the recording and see if they actually said what you think they did.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Let me guess. The GP is the one that wouldn't "confirm, most definitely, a spirit world".

 

[John Jones]

Sorry Adman, I know what I witnessed, and total non-belief is what I'm up against, hence why I haven't ever mentioned the story. You don't believe the spirit~world exists anyway, but if you did believe, you would know that it's not all magic and voices, it's got a terrible dark side.

Clearly I'm not living a fantasy world to those who aren't afraid to witness this evidence, I only live in a fantasy world according to people who speak, and diagnose, before digesting the evidence.

Not this again.

What evidence are we supposed to consider? You haven't offered any.

 

[zooterkin]

Flaccon did alter her website recently. I no longer find the following:

[For skeptics: We can offer you a £1000 reward, against a £100.00 donation made by yourself to your chosen Charity, if you can debunk "our claim" or simply re-create the "Art work and Voices" in the same style as spirits have created it.
"Claim" = Spirits exist, have voices and are performing amazing art work in millimeters.
P.S. Your chances are slim.. ]

It's pretty easy to see why Flocon would not mention this part in the present thread and why one would chicken out...

I would bet more than that on certain skeptics being able to reproduce her results...
(ETA: Not that I'm suggesting it would be worth the effort)

It's still there: http://www.chapter23.org/About-Us.html, or at least the first part is.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

It's still there: http://www.chapter23.org/About-Us.html, or at least the first part is.

Thanks. I had a nagging feeling I might have just missed it. I was scanning for a layout I remembered incorrectly, so I missed the words. My bad.

With an ounce of honesty on her part, it would make someone a quick £1000.

 

[Cassidy]

Thanks. I had a nagging feeling I might have just missed it. I was scanning for a layout I remembered incorrectly, so I missed the words. My bad.

With an ounce of honesty on her part, it would make someone a quick £1000.

The visit to Mr Bulger's home was a success. I know that means nothing here, but it's another firm witness for me.

(Alderbank, I am trying to find your post, I was told you don't mind any day? Sunday is still great for me after 5pm. Will PM you the addy)

£1000 is not a big stake is it. But it's nice pocket money. I'm honest enough honour to a bet Maurice.

 

[SezMe]

I gave it some thought, and although people in this thread say witnesses are not important (which I find an odd thing to say) I am asking as many witnesses as possible (their brains are still shaken however) to bite their lip and to join us in this thread.

You've mentioned "witnesses" several times in this thread. Can you please tell us exactly what a "witness" is?

And yes I do agree, it's not good to put personal feelings first, but I do think scumbag, fraudster, failure, etc etc is too silly, to make me even want to continue here. Opinions of that nature ought to be put more respectfully.

I did a search of this thread and the very first use of the word "scumbag" is this one. To repeat what has been said again and again, posters asking for evidence - no matter how ill-put you think the request might be - is not any sort of personal comment.

Remember your thread topic: Looking for Skeptics. Guess what? You found some. Good. Guess what skeptics do: they ask questions about claims. Good for them. Now, please carry on the spirit of this thread which you started and don't fall into the trap of taking posts personally.

 

[Cassidy]

That's my impression too, based on comments like this:


It appears that "spirits" are not bright enough to grasp the basic principles of the scientific method, or the concept of objective evidence.


I gave the link in post #71, here it is again:

http://chester.humanist.org.uk/?page_id=8

I did email them suggesting they might like to consider inviting flaccon to give a demonstration at one of their monthly meetings but received no reply.

I looked into this, I don't see how I could possibly demonstrate this in a pub, it is not quiet enough.

 

[SezMe]

I know this is of no use to the member's here but it's of great use to me, I'm finally getting to Liverpool today, and have Mr Bulger confirm with hands-on, that a particular recording is actually his very own voice.

I think if I was in this man's position, I'd be real nervous to be hearing my own voice call out from the spirit world.

(So hats off to you Mr Bulger. Very afraid, yet braver by far. I shall arrive you by 4pm)

Please understand that my last meet with Mr Bulger (Oct 2012) did not go too well. He was an emotional wreck, by the time the sprits had revealed themselves to him for the first time. It is understandably so frightening, but this communication is safe. If it had of been the darker forces, I wouldn't be sharing it.

Mr. Bulger has, apparently, already subscribed to your claim to hear voices. Asking him again is of absolutely no value whatsoever.

ETA: Your assertion that your visit was a success in #616 does not add anything to the discussion. I can assure you that nobody here expected you to come back here and state that Mr. Bulger heard nothing.

 

[SezMe]

Ward, I said I would go any time of flaccon's choosing and that still stands. I would love to participate in a controlled test.

Alderbank, I had a thought. I think flaccon will not do a controlled test. Maybe an interim step would be to invite her to a SitP meeting just to discuss this whole topic in an informal session and to meet and hopefully become more comfortable with the people who she might be working with if something more productive comes to pass.