Looking for Skeptics

[Jack by the hedge]

Yes more than 2 people hear the same words/sentences.

I suspect that this would not have happened if there had been no conferring between them. If each person had listened to a recording and written down what they thought they heard, that would be an interesting result. A group of people agreeing they hear what you say you hear is not an interesting result.

3 people identified one of the voices (without prompt)

In which case, they all identified the voice of someone they were all familiar with. Which so constrains the number of possible candidates that the most subtle hint (so subtle that you don't appreciate you're doing it) might push all of them to name the same voice.

Honestly, if you want us to take your results seriously, then you need to be more thorough. It needn't be difficult. Just listen to a few recordings and write down what you think you hear. All the better if some of the recordings don't have any voices you can discern. If a group of people write down what they hear without any conferring whatsoever, then you can all compare notes and get a worthwhile result.

Alternatively, you can test yourself alone, testing whether the voices you think you hear can give you information you don't already have, such as the colour of a playing card that you hold up facing away from you. Be sure to write down your answer before you look at the card.

You'll appreciate that I'm convinced that paraidolia explains these voices, and you will find the voices aren't actually telling you anything once you account for the possibility of fooling yourself.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm sorry, flaccon, but if you truly believe all that, you're clearly living in a fantasy world and should probably seek help elsewhere rather than try to win some skeptical group's prize.

ETA: Wasn't it the bishop who suggested you should see your GP? Or was that a different bishop? And is the bishop your "spirits" are urging you to contact yet another one? Your posts tend to be somewhat confusing, to be honest.

Sorry Adman, I know what I witnessed, and total non-belief is what I'm up against, hence why I haven't ever mentioned the story. You don't believe the spirit~world exists anyway, but if you did believe, you would know that it's not all magic and voices, it's got a terrible dark side.

Clearly I'm not living a fantasy world to those who aren't afraid to witness this evidence, I only live in a fantasy world according to people who speak, and diagnose, before digesting the evidence.

 

[Cassidy]

I suspect that this would not have happened if there had been no conferring between them. If each person had listened to a recording and written down what they thought they heard, that would be an interesting result. A group of people agreeing they hear what you say you hear is not an interesting result.



In which case, they all identified the voice of someone they were all familiar with. Which so constrains the number of possible candidates that the most subtle hint (so subtle that you don't appreciate you're doing it) might push all of them to name the same voice.

Honestly, if you want us to take your results seriously, then you need to be more thorough. It needn't be difficult. Just listen to a few recordings and write down what you think you hear. All the better if some of the recordings don't have any voices you can discern. If a group of people write down what they hear without any conferring whatsoever, then you can all compare notes and get a worthwhile result.

Alternatively, you can test yourself alone, testing whether the voices you think you hear can give you information you don't already have, such as the colour of a playing card that you hold up facing away from you. Be sure to write down your answer before you look at the card.

You'll appreciate that I'm convinced that paraidolia explains these voices, and you will find the voices aren't actually telling you anything once you account for the possibility of fooling yourself.

I did tests, they did give me info I knew nothing about, asked for names of people I didn't know, and a place I didn't know existed. They asked my sister could she hear just some voices, the rest of the voices are lost in entanglement, of each others voice, not a rogue frequency.

Please note; There was no conferring between us. Family members are terrified for now, but those who were brave enough to help/investigate, hear exactly what I hear.

Forget the past, it's the present that I have proof of, my brief explanation of the past was to indicate that "supernatural" occurrences have always been present, and can express terrible abilities. Whilst the light forces have the ability to heal and protect, amongst other things.

 

[Pixel42]

Clearly I'm not living a fantasy world to those who aren't afraid to witness this evidence, I only live in a fantasy world according to people who speak, and diagnose, before they digesting the evidence.

Looking for and evaluating evidence before speaking or diagnosing is exactly what sceptics do. The difference is that sceptics understand how to do this objectively, believers do not.

What you call evidence is to a sceptic exactly the kind of anecdote that centuries of careful scientific investigation has show to be so prone to error and misinterpretation as to be virtually worthless. All such anecdotes can do is indicate that there might be a phenomenon taking place which is worthy of more careful investigation. In the case of EVP, such investigation has always shown the phenomenon does not in fact exist, but is an artifact of our perceptual and cognitive biases. That is therefore the default assumption, until and unless someone produces objective evidence of EVP. You have not done so, nor do you show any indication of ever doing so.

 

[Cassidy]

Looking for and evaluating evidence before speaking or diagnosing is exactly what sceptics do. The difference is that sceptics understand how to do this objectively, believers do not.

What you call evidence is to a sceptic exactly the kind of anecdote that centuries of careful scientific investigation has show to be so prone to error and misinterpretation as to be virtually worthless. All such anecdotes can do is indicate that there might be a phenomenon taking place which is worthy of more careful investigation. In the case of EVP, such investigation has always shown the phenomenon does not in fact exist, but is an artifact of our perceptual and cognitive biases. That is therefore the default assumption, until and unless someone produces objective evidence of EVP. You have not done so, nor do you show any indication of ever doing so.

Pixel, you are no more than 3 hours away from me, it would be good to find a sceptic here that lives a little closer. If you do know of a sceptic living closer, who is willing to hear out the spirits here, I'd be happy to cooperate. I didn't come here to show evidence, or take the time to carefully reply to questions, but I haven't minded replying.

"It's "likely" that it is Paredolia" is a far better way of suggesting such an alternative view point. Rather than "You "are" suffering Paredolia" that is diagnosing me with blind judgement. Conventional sceptic-wisdom, will not apply to every supernatural case.

Once it is confirmed that it is "supernatural communication" and it is a recognisable member of the family, we can all start digesting their information, and living to how we are supposed to live.

 

[bluesjnr]

Flaccon, you've been around a couple of days now, you've been given details of a local group who will help test your claim. Have you contacted them? If not, why not?

You have been given guidance in how to complete a self test. Have you conducted this test? If not, why not?

You have offered to send one, some or all of the the recordings to posters on this thread (I'd like to hear them). Have you sent any? If not, why not?

Flaccon, could I ask for a response to my previous questions?

 

[Pixel42]

Pixel, you are no more than 3 hours away from me, it would be good to find a sceptic here that lives a little closer. If you do know of a sceptic living closer, who is willing to hear out the spirits here, I'd be happy to cooperate.

Have you contacted the Chester 'Skeptics in the Pub' group?

"It's "likely" that it is Paredolia" is a far better way of suggesting such an alternative view point. Rather than "You "are" suffering Paredolia" that is diagnosing me with blind judgement.

The default assumption must be that the explanation of your experience is the same as what turned out to be the explanation for every other such case ever investigated, until and unless objective evidence is produced to the contrary. That's just the way it is.

Have you done that simple card test yet?

Conventional sceptic-wisdom, will not apply to every supernatural case.

It has so far.

Once it is confirmed that it is "supernatural communication"

You berate us for seeming to prejudge the issue, and then type this? We at least are prepared to re-examine our assumption if you ever manage to produce some objective evidence.

 

[Stray Cat]

(I ask, trouble is, if I don't know what the word means in the first place, I can't make out that particular word.

If someone in a regular conversation in a shop forinstance says a word that you don't understand can you still make out that word?

What you have described above is a classic sign of paredolia. When looking at pictures, people tend to see faces, not only faces but usually culturally significant faces (in the West people see the typical Westernised idealisation of Jesus or Elvis, in the Far East it's more likely they will see Buddha or Bruce Lee. When listening to white noise people will hear only words that they know and only languages that they already understand. No spirit can for instance teach them Greek etc.

Their voices overlap, but each tone is different. At first I assumed the background noises were just twittering sounds from the internal fan. I went Curry's to upgrade to a better quality speaker, the gent informed me that "twittering noises" from recordings shouldn't happen (just the hissing) When I re-heard the recordings through Bose, the twittering was louder, turned out to be a pile of entangled speech.)

Sorry Flaccon but the salesman who successfully relieved you of the price of a pair of Bose C2 speakers (about £90) was simply wrong.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar99/articles/20tips.htm

(Thanks for this link, that's great. I will investigate this and upload soon. I have a scrabble match on)

Yup, I'm sure the spirits can wait until you've finished your Scrabble match... Afterall, getting the spirits message out there isn't urgent or important.... oh hang on!

Can you please tell me a better speaker I can use? Would Bose C3 have louder volume? My sister donated £200 towards speakers, I can add a further 200, so my limit is £400)

Sorry but I can not recommend that you spend a single penny on upgrading your equipment as I think you would just be wasting your money trying to knit fog.
I have plenty of advanced recording and play back equipment here and all the software required to enhance any frequency in a recording.
Ideally at the moment, what you could do is to upload a file or selection of files without giving any clues as to what is supposed to be said on them (maybe you could also upload just one with a written transcript of what you hear so that I can get an idea of what I'm listening out for) and I'll gladly listen to them and try to filter out any background noise to enhance the voice sounds. As I too charge only for travel expenses it will be free of charge as I wont have to travel anywhere.

Edit; Sorry, my replies are in between your words. Trying to get the hang of sectioning replies like what you do)

Don't worry about it.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Pixel, you are no more than 3 hours away from me, it would be good to find a sceptic here that lives a little closer. If you do know of a sceptic living closer, who is willing to hear out the spirits here, I'd be happy to cooperate. I didn't come here to show evidence, or take the time to carefully reply to questions, but I haven't minded replying.

"It's "likely" that it is Paredolia" is a far better way of suggesting such an alternative view point. Rather than "You "are" suffering Paredolia" that is diagnosing me with blind judgement. Conventional sceptic-wisdom, will not apply to every supernatural case.

Once it is confirmed that it is "supernatural communication" and it is a recognisable member of the family, we can all start digesting their information, and living to how we are supposed to live.

It has been pointed out that you should try to understand why you are hearing voices. What you should not do is set out to "confirm that it is supernatural communication".

Also, even if you were to prove that members of your family can communicate through your recordings, it certainly would not follow that their information, digested or otherwise, will tell me how I'm supposed to live.

Facts:

There is no credible evidence of the existence of a spirit world

No one has ever been found to have actually been "possessed"

EVP has been shown to be nonsense every time it's been seriously investigated

Pareidolia is not something to be diagnosed with. It is a phenomenon we are all subject to.

You're not doing anyone a favour by carefully replying to questions. You are the one being helped with your queries.

Skeptic wisdom absolutely does "apply to every supernatural case".

 

[Cassidy]

She's answered it now:


Mentioning a "price" rather than saying she charges travel expenses could just be sloppy use of language.

I didn't reply to it because I assumed it was self explanatory, thanks for pointing it out anyway. I'm not a complete charity case, not yet. I am donating everything I have, to this cause, to raise funds for certain materials required, and because I have to pay for that website, I'll also be using it to sell off the wares that I have donated. Just another way of trading you may think, but that's not the case. I may not reach the child that isn't eating tonight, but nothings impossible.

 

[zooterkin]

If you're suggesting the spirits are speaking only when you hit playback and aren't really being recorded, why have you said a number of times in this thread that you want to send a recorded file to other posters for them to listen to the spirits (even though you haven't yet done so, despite all your claims)?

Flaccon, an answer to this question would be very helpful before you go any further.

 

[TjW]

flaccon, absolutely do not upgrade your equipment. For better communication with the "spirits" you need the absolutely cruddiest, noisiest, most distorted sound you can get.
Ideally, it will be band-limited to between 300-3000 Hz.
A cheap AM radio tuned between stations is a proven performer.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I did tests, they did give me info I knew nothing about, asked for names of people I didn't know, and a place I didn't know existed.

That all sounds a bit subjective to me. I could quite easily make up names of people I didn't know and describe an imaginary place which is bound to be a moderately good match for some real location.

Sorry, but I really think you are kidding yourself and a simple test with completely objective yes/no results will prove it.

If it turns out I'm wrong and the spirits can tell you whether a playing card is red or black significantly more often than pure chance, then you and they can win a million and start a scientific revolution.

 

[Stray Cat]

... and start a scientific revolution.

Not to mention a spiritual revolution too.

 

[Cassidy]

flaccon, absolutely do not upgrade your equipment. For better communication with the "spirits" you need the absolutely cruddiest, noisiest, most distorted sound you can get.
Ideally, it will be band-limited to between 300-3000 Hz.
A cheap AM radio tuned between stations is a proven performer.

I've been familiarising myself with Audacity, so far fantastic, and no I don't need to upgrade the speakers. The sound is amplified which enables me to turn down the speaker volume, quietening the hiss. I've only spent 30 mins on it so far, I'm wondering if i's possible to play a file recorded from the youcam programme and play it through the audacity programme.

 

[xterra]

I've been familiarising myself with Audacity, so far fantastic, and no I don't need to upgrade the speakers. The sound is amplified which enables me to turn down the speaker volume, quietening the hiss. I've only spent 30 mins on it so far, I'm wondering if i's possible to play a file recorded from the youcam programme and play it through the audacity programme.

I don't know if that's possible. Why don't you just try it, and let us know the result?


(With a bit of sarcasm, I will add, "This is called experimenting.")

 

[marplots]

The situation may be rather more delicate than we are allowing for here. Spirits, I would think, have personalities, motivations and agendas. Treating them as if they were mice to run a maze for our benefit might not only be insulting to them, but cause an outright rebellion.

Perhaps flaccon should just accept what he/she is allowed to have and leave it at that?

Flaccon, what do the spirits have to say about all this "skeptic" stuff? Are they interesting in being tested or not?

 

[Cassidy]

Flaccon, an answer to this question would be very helpful before you go any further.

I prefer the more hands-on approach, nothing suspicious about that. I don't feel comfortable sending anything through here but I shall contact Chester sceptics here, and then ASKE. I drive, so local travel is not a problem. Any information I've tapped out here, is enough said really, it's time to leave the machine alone and act.

The member who told me that he/she has good sound speakers, let me have your email addy, I can post you a file, there's over a thousand files of similar content.

Anything I haven't replied to, isn't out of ignorance, just newness. After information I received from this site, thanks, especially for "Audacity" I've a couple of amendments to make tonight, off to Liverpool tomorrow to have Mr Bulger's voice confirmed, then its systems go.

 

[Weak Kitten]

I'm glad to see that everyone is thinking about this claim and how to work with it. Don't be discouraged, Flaccon, if people seem a bit testy at times. They have seen many astonishing claims in the past that have disappeared the moment they tried to actually get the claimant to place any scientific controls on the situation. After a while it becomes quite frustrating and claimants often become rude and abusive in their language before storming off in a huff. I am not saying that you are any of these things but bear this in mind when working with people on these forums.

As a project for yourself I think you need to contemplate a very dificult question. This is a question that every scientist must ask themselves at some point in their research. That question is, "What would I need to do to prove my hypothesis wrong?"

What evidence, what proof, would you need to demonstrate to yourself that these voices are a trick of perception? What experiment can you set up whose outcome would prove to you that these are not spirit voices?

Think it over, there is no rush. Many on this forum can give you examples of the sorts of experiments you might try but only you can decide what evidence would convince you.

 

[Cassidy]

If someone in a regular conversation in a shop forinstance says a word that you don't understand can you still make out that word?

What you have described above is a classic sign of paredolia. When looking at pictures, people tend to see faces, not only faces but usually culturally significant faces (in the West people see the typical Westernised idealisation of Jesus or Elvis, in the Far East it's more likely they will see Buddha or Bruce Lee. When listening to white noise people will hear only words that they know and only languages that they already understand. No spirit can for instance teach them Greek etc.


Sorry Flaccon but the salesman who successfully relieved you of the price of a pair of Bose C2 speakers (about £90) was simply wrong.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar99/articles/20tips.htm


Yup, I'm sure the spirits can wait until you've finished your Scrabble match... Afterall, getting the spirits message out there isn't urgent or important.... oh hang on!


Sorry but I can not recommend that you spend a single penny on upgrading your equipment as I think you would just be wasting your money trying to knit fog.
I have plenty of advanced recording and play back equipment here and all the software required to enhance any frequency in a recording.
Ideally at the moment, what you could do is to upload a file or selection of files without giving any clues as to what is supposed to be said on them (maybe you could also upload just one with a written transcript of what you hear so that I can get an idea of what I'm listening out for) and I'll gladly listen to them and try to filter out any background noise to enhance the voice sounds. As I too charge only for travel expenses it will be free of charge as I wont have to travel anywhere.


Don't worry about it.

Straycat, please send email, I know how to send via there,I'll send thru within minutes.