Looking for Skeptics

[Mojo]

Naw, I needed to read up on what she was about. It was a link on here for me to ponder. Really sad case, it appears although Cassandra had been given the gift of foresight, no one would believe her, Troy was destroyed as she predicted. (Wikipedia for reference)

Using mythical stories as evidence is always somewhat problematic, though.

I get a feeling (and don't take it for anything more than just a bit of a hunch) that it was no coincidence that the Bible, or that Mayan Calendar, predicted the year 2000 was a turning point in our life-cycle. Maybe this time-scale was carefully worked to out how long it would take for man to discover technology, for spirits to be discovered? I dno, but it's plausible somewhere.

Begging the question (and see also the comment about using myths as evidence).

There was no sign that any "turning point" was reached either at the "millennium" or at the end of the Mayan calendar.

 

[Cassidy]

I can't help but notice, Flaccon, that you deliberately chose to answer all the tangential comments and were quick to take offense at criticism while ignoring a lot of the posts that asked direct questions and tried to move the thread forward. This is evasive behavior.

But despite all of that, you actually managed to send a file for the skeptics to analyze, which is a huge step and shows your sincerity and wish to investigate it. Now that we found nothing on the recording but noise and possibly some fodder for pareidolia, all of us probably agree that the voices, if real, actually aren't recorded on the sound files. Why not stick around and think of a way to actually get the voices on a tape for anyone to hear?

You do understand that a lot of people don't believe in spirits/spirit world, and if you could manage to get some definite proof it exists, it'd literally be life-changing for everyone on the planet? A discovery of that magnitude shouldn't be sabotaged by personal feelings or whatever offense is taken or given in this forum thread. Wouldn't you agree?

The alternative, of course, is that there's nothing supernatural going on and it's the mind that's playing tricks on you. If you want to be honest, you need to keep that possibility open, same as we are willing to keep the possibility of spirits open by offering you tests that rule out other explanations. That is why you came here in the first place, isn't it?

I managed to cringe through a couple of replies last night, and had enough. My openness and willingness to cooperate to the best of my ability, is obvious, and my aim should be more than obvious by now.

I gave it some thought, and although people in this thread say witnesses are not important (which I find an odd thing to say) I am asking as many witnesses as possible (their brains are still shaken however) to bite their lip and to join us in this thread. And yes I do agree, it's not good to put personal feelings first, but I do think scumbag, fraudster, failure, etc etc is too silly, to make me even want to continue here. Opinions of that nature ought to be put more respectfully.

Witnesses are very important in every case. Again, with hands-on, this communication is obvious.

There are over 1000 spirits, they do get stirred up and it becomes extremely difficult to hear anything, other than odd words and noise. Its like this.. they healed me, inform me of greatest mysteries, guide, encourage, and I'm to sit here with bits of coloured card, because that's how "we" do it these days. Do you see how ridiculous this sounds to them?

Maurice won't be happy unless a spirit sits her/him down, and tells her direct. And that, is exactly what I am offering.

 

[Mojo]

I managed to cringe through a couple of replies last night, and had enough. My openness and willingness to cooperate to the best of my ability, is obvious, and my aim should be more than obvious by now.

That's probably why TeapotCavalry couldn't help but notice it.

 

[Cassidy]

Using mythical stories as evidence is always somewhat problematic, though.




Begging the question (and see also the comment about using myths as evidence).

There was no sign that any "turning point" was reached either at the "millennium" or at the end of the Mayan calendar.

Just a hunch, a distant hunch.

I haven't used a myth as evidence. Please, go get your facts right.

 

[chillzero]

I do think scumbag, fraudster, failure, etc etc is too silly, to make me even want to continue here. Opinions of that nature ought to be put more respectfully.

flaccon, did you read the following post?
It's really important, because this is not about getting personal, or calling names. It's about legality of claims according to the authoriities.

and once again, your website is an advertisement. Anyone who stumbled across it with a google search or followed the link to it from this thread could legitimately submit a complaint about it to the Advertising Standards Authority who can investigate based on a single complaint, and take action up to and including prosecution.

Here's the ASA's website:

http://www.asa.org.uk/About-ASA/About-regulation.aspx

Here's the Committee of Advertising Practice's interpretation of the rules for advertising spiritual and psychic services (pdf document):

http://www.cap.org.uk/~/media/Files...keting of spiritual and psychic services.ashx

Note that documentary evidence is required of any claim which can be objectively substantiated. You have no such evidence, all you have are textbook examples of pareidolia. You have been given much helpful advice about how you could obtain such objective evidence (if your claims are true), and offers of help in doing so, which you have willfully ignored.

 

[marplots]

There are over 1000 spirits, they do get stirred up and it becomes extremely difficult to hear anything, other than odd words and noise. Its like this.. they healed me, inform me of greatest mysteries, guide, encourage, and I'm to sit here with bits of coloured card, because that's how "we" do it these days. Do you see how ridiculous this sounds to them?

I do, actually.
Perhaps there are things you can share without having to demand trivial tasks from the spirits. Could you tell me a little bit about the greatest mysteries you have been informed of? I'd very much like to hear more on that subject.

 

[Cassidy]

Flacon, what would you call my failure to hear anything resembling a human voice on three different speaker systems?

What would you call my partners failure to hear (without any prior knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the recordings) anything other than noise when she listened to the recordings?

The fact that I am not alone and your recordings have been listened to on a variety of low, mid and high end systems without producing anything like a positive hit should have you preparing for the worst.

Nobody is "stoning" you, what you are experiencing is people who are not so ready to agree with your version of what is happening, people who have no good reason to appease you. It's not personal.

Please also note that I'm not asking you to thank me, I'm asking you to acknowledge my contribution by answering the simple questions imposed. These questions were seeking to clarify your set-up whilst recording. You ignored them.

I seriously haven't ignored anything. "Preparing for worse" believe this if nothing else, I am very optimistic. I have never "not delivered" what I've ever said I could deliver, which hasn't been much in life, but I am aware of my level of ability.

My point regarding Paredolia is this, it does not account for what appears to be a super-imposed photo-like image of my eyes, and my brother's eyes. It does not account for the image of my late sister. It does not account for the magnitude of images, so refined that one can count the teeth in the mouth's of some of the images. It does not account for voice-recognition of 2 of the spirits. It not account for breathing in for 3/4 minutes. It does not account for other family member's being attacked. If this is Paredolia, and it's not something one "suffers" then this cannot be Paredolia because it is to the point of suffering. Theory of "delusioned" was long ago dismissed. My GP is involved, and encourages me in the right direction.

I get the feeling certain member's are even scoffing at the more normal things I say, like who my brother-in-law is. Its like it doesn't matter what I say, normal, or informal, it's taken as a lie. The last time I saw our St- - -, was a long time ago, he's an extremely busy man.

One has to remember this, this is an internet, this is not hands-on. Hands-on is fantastic. I am excited about Alderbank, and if notAlderbank, the next trusting person that I also feel a sense of trust towards.

 

[Mojo]

I haven't used a myth as evidence. Please, go get your facts right.

I didn't say you did. I said that the use of myth is problematic.

 

[Cassidy]

I do, actually.
Perhaps there are things you can share without having to demand trivial tasks from the spirits. Could you tell me a little bit about the greatest mysteries you have been informed of? I'd very much like to hear more on that subject.

I know that the more I say, the more I will be dis-believed, but one has to remember, if this is the spirit-world, nothing "normal" is going to come from it. Believe it or not, I have only scratched the surface of explaining their information. A lot of it I can't explain to myself. I sit and wrack my brains half the time, connecting dots or tryin to, I shake my head in wonderment all the time. I really don't care for prize money, I need science. But I'm up against being heared out, and automatically dismissed before "hands-on" because its too bizarre (the spirit world is bizarre, as like is their information)

I know this is of no use to the member's here but it's of great use to me, I'm finally getting to Liverpool today, and have Mr Bulger confirm with hands-on, that a particular recording is actually his very own voice.

I think if I was in this man's position, I'd be real nervous to be hearing my own voice call out from the spirit world.

(So hats off to you Mr Bulger. Very afraid, yet braver by far. I shall arrive you by 4pm)

Please understand that my last meet with Mr Bulger (Oct 2012) did not go too well. He was an emotional wreck, by the time the sprits had revealed themselves to him for the first time. It is understandably so frightening, but this communication is safe. If it had of been the darker forces, I wouldn't be sharing it. Apart from my children, I have respectfully lived alone for 20 years as to not put others at risk.

I can't reply to any more posts yet, I have to leave. I'm buzzing to know what Mr Bulger has to say, now that the worse is over.

Have a good day.

 

[Mojo]

I know that the more I say, the more I will be dis-believed, but one has to remember, if this is the spirit-world, nothing "normal" is going to come from it.

Special pleading.

All we're asking for is evidence.

 

[Pup]

If this is Paredolia, and it's not something one "suffers" then this cannot be Paredolia because it is to the point of suffering. Theory of "delusioned" was long ago dismissed. My GP is involved, and encourages me in the right direction.

By whom? Until there's better evidence that there are actual sentient beings providing voices, it seems the most logical explanation.

It's true that pariedolia doesn't cause suffering in most people, because they don't believe that the patterns their mind perceives are real. Finding animals in the clouds or faces in random patterns is just harmless amusement to them.

My father was schizophrenic, and he certainly "suffered" from being so, not because his mind perceived patterns in random things like everyone's does, but because he was convinced that the patterns he saw had great meaning and import to our lives, when in fact everyone else could see that they had none.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Hi Flaccon,

Here are my thoughts. Although I have probably been your harshest critic on this thread, I’ve been careful not to be disrespectful toward you as a person. I happen to think that you are rather adorable.

My issue is clearly with your website and the extravagant claims made on its pages. I thought you might want to know that they are not appreciated. Promising contact with dead loved ones, based on extremely weak evidence, is not an ethical way of doing business, no matter how you look at it. Not even close.

If a spirit “sits me down and tells me direct”, I like to think it will mean little to me in terms of their existence. I would go see a neurologist to sort things out. When I say personal experience is meaningless when it comes to paranormal claims, I mean it for myself also.

My most sincere suggestion to you is to take a break from your recordings, go see a healthcare professional and have them Google this thread or have a look at your website.


Cassandra’s story is not real. It is a tale from Greek mythology. It never actually happened. Like Icke’s nonsense and the chemtrails. With professional help you may be able to sort out reality from fantasy to an extent. (I’m sure you’ll think this is insulting, but I mean it as caring advice.)

 

[Cassidy]

flaccon, did you read the following post?
It's really important, because this is not about getting personal, or calling names. It's about legality of claims according to the authoriities.

Prosecution, is the best hands-on I can hope for right now. I have tried the more private route, respectfully for over 5 months. I can't be dismissed because of it's bizarre content, if I am to be prosecuted, because at last my evidence would have to be heard out hands-on. What choice have I left? Do you see that? No matter who I approach in the professional world, even those who want evidence, it is simply dismissed with the box-tick approach, before being investigated. Understandably so, from an outside point of view, but I am not an outsider.

 

[bluesjnr]

Prosecution, is the best hands-on I can hope for right now. I have tried the more private route, respectfully for over 5 months. I can't be dismissed because of it's bizarre content, if I am to be prosecuted, because at last my evidence would have to be heard out hands-on. What choice have I left? Do you see that? No matter who I approach in the professional world, even those who want evidence, it is simply dismissed with the box-tick approach, before being investigated. Understandably so, from an outside point of view, but I am not an outsider.

Flaccon, it doesn't work like that......

 

[chillzero]

Prosecution, is the best hands-on I can hope for right now. I have tried the more private route, respectfully for over 5 months. I can't be dismissed because of it's bizarre content, if I am to be prosecuted, because at last my evidence would have to be heard out hands-on. What choice have I left? Do you see that? No matter who I approach in the professional world, even those who want evidence, it is simply dismissed with the box-tick approach, before being investigated. Understandably so, from an outside point of view, but I am not an outsider.

Firstly, my point was to address your concern that people are getting personal and mean with you. They are not - they have legitimate concerns.

Secondly, I highlighted those concerns in the best post written here to address them. You need to take this information on board, and you need to review the information you place on your website in light of the law. You have a legal requirement to support claims, and if you can't support them, you can't make them on a website as enticement to use a service.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Proving it to the people was not the initial plan

I imagined that in coming to a skeptics forum to discuss these 'spirit voices', you intended to try to show they were real. If not then I guess there's nothing of interest for me here.

, it required Church intervention.

What might a church do about it? I don't understand.

 

[Cassidy]

Hi Flaccon,

Here are my thoughts. Although I have probably been your harshest critic on this thread, I’ve been careful not to be disrespectful toward you as a person. I happen to think that you are rather adorable.

My issue is clearly with your website and the extravagant claims made on its pages. I thought you might want to know that they are not appreciated. Promising contact with dead loved ones, based on extremely weak evidence, is not an ethical way of doing business, no matter how you look at it. Not even close.

If a spirit “sits me down and tells me direct”, I like to think it will mean little to me in terms of their existence. I would go see a neurologist to sort things out. When I say personal experience is meaningless when it comes to paranormal claims, I mean it for myself also.

My most sincere suggestion to you is to take a break from your recordings, go see a healthcare professional and have them Google this thread or have a look at your website.


Cassandra’s story is not real. It is a tale from Greek mythology. It never actually happened. Like Icke’s nonsense and the chemtrails. With professional help you may be able to sort out reality from fantasy to an extent. (I’m sure you’ll think this is insulting, but I mean it as caring advice.)

I didn't really point out the Cassandra story, a member asked me her/his thoughts on the take, and I couldn't find the post, which appeared ignorant on my side, so I mentioned it in hope that member would see I had not forgotten. But that aside, its the name-calling, and everyone has a right to make a claim. My claims are true Maurice, I lost my Father and I accidentally found him. Everything I am trying to say here, is true. I do keep repeating, and I don't mind doing so, but I have been to the GP, several times, and he is helping me, he does realise that Psychiatry will not benefit this situation. He also has guidelines, like what the Churches have, which of course are really just irrelevant issues, considering the magnitude of this.

My site will polish in time, but the claims have to remain. There is no public advertising going on. I'm not allowed to shout out in jubilation in the real world, it's considered crazy for the common person to have such a revelation, but I can on the internet, whilst gathering witness upon witness in the meantime.

I really have to sign out and go, have a good day.

 

[Stray Cat]

... No matter who I approach in the professional world, even those who want evidence, it is simply dismissed with the box-tick approach, before being investigated.

This is simply not true.
With respect, trying to discuss anything objectively with you is like herding cats. There is no constant line of inquiry that can be followed as your only constant point is that you are right and we are wrong. As what we are trying to ascertain is the veracity of your claims, that really doesn't move us or you forward any. It is circular reasoning; "I'm right because I say so and if you could see things from my point of view you'd be right too"
This approach doesn't address if you're right in the first place but only that if someone was as (potentially) wrong as you, you'd see them as being right. You shouldn't be trying to convince us that you're right, you should be going all out to find ways to objectively demonstrate how right you are. The simple byproduct of that (if you do manage to provide objective evidence to support your claims) is that we'll be convinced.

if you could keep the superfluous narrative away from the objective facts that we are trying to pin down, you'd have a much easier time here and we could actually get to the nub of what may or may not be happening.
With your present level of emotional investment in your claims, it is going to be very difficult for anyone to follow a single line of investigation in an attempt to verify the accuracy of what you claim.

But please rest assured, that is exactly what most people here are trying to do. Examine your claims and try to find ways of objectively verifying them.

 

[Drs_Res]

Wow, are you really not following along here? This was a way to get a sound file that was not picking up noise in the environment or from your computer, just dead silence.

If you followed the directions in my post you should not have "recorded" anything.
You did not hit the record button at all, is that correct?

No, I selected silence, and hit record. If I was supposed to get silence, I didn't. They are not actually being recorded, so maybe any future recordings I do that way, should eliminate the noisy twittering birds outside? Or maybe if I speak during the "silent" recording. I must try this.

Where in my directions did I say "Hit Record"? Answer: I did not.
When you hit record after generating silence, Audacity starts recording another track along side the silence. When you play back the tracks, Audacity will play back the silence AND the newly recorded track at the same time.

There were only like 4 steps in my directions. Try following them again, but this time, after generating silence, stop right there. DO NOT HIT RECORD. Ask your question, then hit the playback button.

If you can't follow those directions, I don't know how to help you make a silent track.

I could upload the file I made and you could see if you hear anything on my recording. But we may still have a problem, and that would be your particular laptop.

Let me explain that. If your laptop is bad with audio, then you are going to hear things that are not on the original recording. This would be noise that is introduced to the speakers but is not on the actual audio file. It can also explain noise introduced to your recordings as well. This is a technical/equipment issue and not a spirits manipulating wires issue. And let's face the facts here. Most laptops are not made for quality audio recording and playback.

It would be interesting if you took your audio files to someone who had a good computer system (sound wise) and you played your audio files back through their system.

As far as the recording that you made while trying to follow my directions: Did you save it as a project, or did you export it as a .wav? If you saved it as a project, could you zip the project file and send it to the g-mail account? If you exported it as a .wav file would you please send that file to the G-Mail account? I would like to hear what you recorded and or see the project file.

Thanks.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Flaccon, what if I told you I could prove that mischievous demons exist?

Here's an optical illusion:


Look closely at the wheels and they'll begin to turn. Often the one you're staring at stops but the others still turn.

Little demons make the wheels turn. Even if you print this picture onto paper the little demons still make the wheels turn. Almost everyone sees the wheels turn. What possible other explanation can there be except little demons?


This is just about where we are with your spirit voices claim. It's not real. Even if people agree with you that they also think they hear voices and words, it's still not real. It's just the way our human senses work.

If you hope to persuade anyone here that the voices you hear are real voices, then giving examples of other people also hearing voices is not going to achieve that. Everyone sees the wheels turn. That doesn't prove demons are real, because it's all in our heads - the wheels, of course, never move.