GOP hate speech continues ban on atheist chaplains in military

[jj]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...food-republican-congressman-article-1.1365024

"worm food" he says. Hate speech, and a clear violation civil rights of the unreligious, as well as barely hidden incitement.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Are atheists frequently in need of religious help?

 

[BStrong]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...food-republican-congressman-article-1.1365024

"worm food" he says. Hate speech, and a clear violation civil rights of the unreligious, as well as barely hidden incitement.

Atheist chaplains?

I'm an atheist and a vet and I can't imagine how that would even work - and what the hell is a ethical culture group?

Hate speech wasn't mentioned at your link either, so where does hate speech fit into this?

 

[The Big Dog]

This is an incitement against people who don't collect stamps!

 

[jj]

Atheist chaplains?

I'm an atheist and a vet and I can't imagine how that would even work - and what the hell is a ethical culture group?

Hate speech wasn't mentioned at your link either, so where does hate speech fit into this?

Claiming that an atheist chaplain would tell the family something of the sort that hey, your kid is worm food is pure hate speech. It is false, and intentionally calculated to create hatred and resentment.

And you would appear to be suggesting that an atheist councilor could not offer consolation. Was that your intent?

 

[Babbylonian]

Atheist chaplains?

I'm an atheist and a vet and I can't imagine how that would even work - and what the hell is a ethical culture group?

Hate speech wasn't mentioned at your link either, so where does hate speech fit into this?

I believe he's categorizing as hate speech the flippant/ignorant speculation that an atheist chaplain (and yes, that's a really weird idea) would use the term "worm food" when referring to fallen soldiers.

Most days I disagree with JJ but in this particular case I think he's right. The idea that atheists would disrespect dead soldiers while talking to their families is pretty offensive.

Then again, the idea that an atheist would want to work as a "chaplain" makes no sense, either. Their purpose is to tend to soldiers' spiritual needs, which isn't a big issue for atheists/humanists. It also makes more sense to me for notification teams to ideally consist of an officer and a doctor. If a family wants religious counseling, they can obtain that on their own - unless, of course, the chaplain has an existing relationship with the family.

In short, the guy's a moron who should obviously be flushed out of Congress. Despite that, and for the wrong reasons, he's right on the issue.

 

[jj]

Are atheists frequently in need of religious help?

Are you aware of what chaplains do? It's not just "religious help".

 

[Upchurch]

Are you aware of what chaplains do? It's not just "religious help".

Well, I guess I'm not aware of what chaplains do. I guess you are implying the do psychological counseling as well?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I suppose it's much more comforting to the family of a dead solider to be told "oh, he still exists, he's burning in hell for all eternity because he didn't go to the right denomination's services".

 

[Cleon]

Oh, atheists. Declaring that you're not a religion on one hand, then doing your best to imitate religion on the other. Chaplains, monuments, church services...

 

[BStrong]

Claiming that an atheist chaplain would tell the family something of the sort that hey, your kid is worm food is pure hate speech. It is false, and intentionally calculated to create hatred and resentment.

And you would appear to be suggesting that an atheist councilor could not offer consolation. Was that your intent?

It isn't hate speech, it's the opinion of a *******.

Calling for the citizenry to hang every atheist from the nearest tree is hate speech.

Consolation for what?

I'm guessing you're not a service member or a veteran, because if you were you'd know that if bad **** happens to you while in service, at least in the infantry or Marines, your service family is going to be the first responders in helping you get through/over whatever difficulty you've found yourself in, we pretty much take care of our own.

I'm still wondering wth an ethical culture group is, any answers?

 

[sarge]

Are you aware of what chaplains do? It's not just "religious help".

A Chaplains job is primarily religious in nature - it is the defining aspect of their job. The notion of an Atheist joining the Chaplaincy really is ridiculous. An Atheist that is otherwise qualified could certainly become a counselor in one of the many other disciplines employed by the services.

 

[sarge]

I believe he's categorizing as hate speech the flippant/ignorant speculation that an atheist chaplain (and yes, that's a really weird idea) would use the term "worm food" when referring to fallen soldiers.

Most days I disagree with JJ but in this particular case I think he's right. The idea that atheists would disrespect dead soldiers while talking to their families is pretty offensive.

Then again, the idea that an atheist would want to work as a "chaplain" makes no sense, either. Their purpose is to tend to soldiers' spiritual needs, which isn't a big issue for atheists/humanists. It also makes more sense to me for notification teams to ideally consist of an officer and a doctor. If a family wants religious counseling, they can obtain that on their own - unless, of course, the chaplain has an existing relationship with the family.

In short, the guy's a moron who should obviously be flushed out of Congress. Despite that, and for the wrong reasons, he's right on the issue.

Notification teams include a Chaplain ideally (but not absolutely), each of them having been specifically trained to be helpful at the moment of notification. The teams are headed by the Notification Officer, someone at least equal in rank to the deceased and at least a Captain (for an officer) CWO2 (for a Warrant) or SFC (for enlisted).

While most Americans still profess a belief in some form of woo, it isn't the wooness alone of the Chaplain that gets him on the notification team. He's there because of his wooness and his training as a counselor.

 

[Bikewer]

Much like the homosexual "marriage" debate, much would seem to depend on the definition of the word "chaplain". When I was in, the various chaplains ("Protestant" and Catholic only...You were out of luck if you were of some other faith or sect....) indeed functioned as psychological counselors, family counselors, and varieties of other things as well.

There's no reason an atheist or secular humanist could not perform these functions, and it does seem appropriate that secular troops should have access to such things... but perhaps under some other rubric.
However..... In the military, to seek "psychological counseling" is often a prelude to ostracism, lack of promotions, or transfers.... Whereas a trip the chaplain is quite acceptable and also considered confidential....

 

[Cleon]

("Protestant" and Catholic only...You were out of luck if you were of some other faith or sect....)

There have been Jewish chaplains since the Civil War, so I gotta ask...How old are you?

 

[Bikewer]

Of course there are....Just not in our little rather-isolated unit.

It was actually rather funny....The Protestant chaplain was a real "gung-ho"individual. Airborne...Ranger...All that. Instead of wearing his black "chaplain" neck-scarf, he wore a camoflage item like the infantry guys did... With the cross emblem sewn on.

However... the guy was never to be found when we were "out in the field" which was about 6 months out of the year. He always found some conference or retreat to attend.
The Catholic chaplain, a rather rotund and decidedly un-military fellow, would always be out there with the guys.

 

[Chuck Guiteau]

As an atheist and a former Infantryman, I find the Congressman's words offensive but I do not believe they rise to the level of hate speech.
Ignorance is the one resource we have that is not in danger of depletion, and this just makes it obvious that there is still a plentiful supply on both sides of the aisle.

 

[Babbylonian]

As an atheist and a former Infantryman, I find the Congressman's words offensive but I do not believe they rise to the level of hate speech.
Ignorance is the one resource we have that is not in danger of depletion, and this just makes it obvious that there is still a plentiful supply on both sides of the aisle.

What tips me over to accepting that it's hate speech is that it ascribes malice to atheists based entirely on their beliefs or lack thereof. The "worm food" statement is no different than speculating that a Baptist chaplain on a notification visit to a Muslim family would tell them that their dead family member is burning in hell. In both cases, any reasonable person would judge such chaplains to be incredibly insensitive and hurtful.

 

[jj]

He's there because of his wooness and his training as a counselor.

My point. And having a woo-counselor is going to work how well with a secular family?

 

[jj]

In the military, to seek "psychological counseling" is often a prelude to ostracism, lack of promotions, or transfers.... Whereas a trip the chaplain is quite acceptable and also considered confidential....

And this craptastic bigot congresscritter wants this to continue.

That's another reason why atheist chaplains are required.

A lack of them is system-imposed prejudice.