Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

Monica Napoleoni planted the bra clasp evidence

She has people for that.

 

[Grinder]

What makes you say her?

It is so very strange how delighted they look finding the bra clasp considering how uninterested they were when they collected the evidence, videoing it on the day of discovery and then (apparently...) leaving it there!

One thing that I've never been able to figure out, what on earth are they doing with it during the December collection? You tweezer it up and put it in the little envelope, there's nothing I can think of that would cause them to treat this 'vital' evidence like that. No benefit at all, it makes them look like clowns in bunny suits.

I did feel better when I read of that judge who resigned not long ago, amongst other things citing that video as something intolerable.

I believe that the defense was watching on CCTV and the ICSI were showing them what they were collecting. It does make them look bad.

 

[RWVBWL]

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy...

Hiya Bill Williams+The Lurkers,

I went down to a beach in Los Angeles this morning to photograph a dude named Wesley Santos,
a black, Brazilian surfer. Just got off the plane to L.A. yesterday...
Dude is incredible, gonna be a top pro soon,
if he can get the surf contest criteria in-grained in his brain:
[qimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img543/4919/wesley01a.th.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img16/7966/wesley02a.th.jpg[/qimg]


Why am I even posting this?
I met this hot lookin' chick on the beach early this mornin',
a petite brunette,an Aussie, originally born in South Africa...
A photog too, she's a PR expert and into the Hollywood scene.
Shooting surfpix...
Hmmmm, I like!!!

After conversing and hangin' out for an hour or so,
we split...

Guess what?
Yep, an hour later,
I've already got an email from her...

Might pursue it,
she's funny, young of mind+spirit, hot, luv's to dance...
And younger than I, hahaha...



But I wonder of something:
Why didn't Meredith NOR Amanda ever text Rudy Guede?
Why didn't Meredith NOR Amanda ever email Rudy Guede?

Heck, friends,
Why didn't Meredith ever even phone Rudy Guede?
"Hey, my boyfriend is outta town"...

It is with those simple thoughts in mind, that I wonder:
What the heck is Rudy Guede's DNA doing inside of Meredith's vagina?
Hmmmm...

Heya Grinder,
you don't really still believe that Meredith had a 'date' with Rudy,
the night Rudy raped+murdered her,
do ya???

 

[js202]

Your whole post is a non sequitur, but the answer to your question is that Rudy sexually assaulted Meredith either before or after killing her.

Not a non sequitur at all. In fact it was both entertaining - for a fellow surfer - and pertinent.

From an experiential account, the post drives home how universal it is that women communicate with their lovers, and even potential lovers, before relations ensue. There is no way on God's green earth that, without so much as having exchanged an email with Rudy Guede, Meredith invited him over to the cottage to hook up.

A teenager would understand that this evil sicko is a liar. And Mignini and Co intentionally tamped down this sort of logic by sequestering Guede with the fast track trial, the prepared statement offered at AK's and RS's appeal, etc.

The fix was in. Moreover, the fix has afforded the opportunity for this scumbag Guede to prance freely out of prison in the not very distant future. It is utterly disgusting and revolting.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Greetings, friends.

I have just reviewed an interesting and long post on True Justice written by Kermit, who as I understand it has posted on here from time to time, in which he talks about Doug Preston, Bryan Fischer, Steve Moore, among others.

First of all let me start with a small yet significant, probably more so to most Americans than anything to do with Knox, quibble with Kermit. He does a comparison to expose the folly of some silly Google search that Preston did that was a specious attempt to prove his point people are out to get Knox. Kermit does this by using Hillary Clinton in a similar search using key words like bitch and slut and pervert. Now it is curious that Hillary would beat out Knox for Google hits when using slut and pervert, nobody can deny this. There is no evidence, that we know of, that Hillary GETS IT ON with her lesbian partner at or near the murder scene after butchering another woman. But at the same time it is suprisinging Knox beats out Hillary for bitch by a wide margin b/c most people understand immediately that bitch is Hillary's core personality....she's your standard uptight militant feminist. One must not fail to remember it was Hillary Clinton to lead the smear campaign against the various and numerous women accusing Bill of sexual harrrasment and in one case, rape. Al these claims were credible yet HIllary demonized these brave women as "nuts and sluts". What, if not a bitch, does this make Hillary? I shall let you make your own conclusions. I, for one, was surprised to learn that only 5 percent in the google search came up with a hit for Hillary + bitch. I would have assumed at least 50 percent, given Republicans and most independents despise this witch who recently lied about the Benghazi terrorist attacks being nothing more than a sponteneous riot over an obscure anti-Islam video nobody has seen, not to mention that Hillary did nothing to aid in the security of this embasy that left 4 Americans dead. to all of this Hillary angrily proclaimed in the Congressional hearing about it, what does it matter?

Now getting back to Kermit's analysis of these pro-Knox bloggers.
One thing stood out, he claims that the accusations against Peter Quennel are false and that the website which made the claims against Quennel have removed those false claims after Quennel had legal documents served to the accuser. Yet, it appears Bruce Fischer's website still has these claims against Quennel. There seems to be a disconnect here and if anybody can explain it, I will appreciate it. Also understand that I tend not to believe the accusations against Quennel, despite being a liberal and this womanizing behavoir is the primary characteristic of the species as demonstrated by Slick Willie and John Edwars who cheated on his wife dying from cancer for goodness sake, and also it's none of my business anyway. Moreover, it doesn't doesn't mean Knox is innocent if it is true.

It is interesting that Doug Preston seems to just borrow from other people his theory of the MOF murder and does not cite that person for it. I also did not know that Spezi and Preston became interested in attacking the MOF occult theory only after one of Spezi's friends, a pharmacist, was arrested in 2004. You'd think Preston would have made it clear that he thought this pharmacist was innocent in his MOF book, and that was the basis for him looking into and developing "his own" theory about the murders. why be sneaky about that?

The Quennell issues are in the past and are off topic here but there is no disconnect. I am honestly surprised that Quennell's site continues to mention anything about Quennell's stalkerish behavior.


Kermit is referring to GroundReport.com when he discusses that an article was removed from the internet. Quennell complained to GR about my article and gave the name of a high powered NY attorney. GR is a small business that does not have the resources to handle complaints like this so they removed the article.

An attorney came forward offering to help GR with the complaint free of charge. As it turned out, Quennell gave the name of a lawyer that was not representing him. Quennell lied as usual.

You can read GR's short response here.

http://www.groundreport.com/Media_and_Tech/NYC-Super-Lawyer-Offers-Services-to-GroundReport/2939757

Quennell's pathetic behavior has been well documented. Quennell did eventually get an attorney, which we were in touch with. His attorney told our contact that he would do his best to keep his client under control.

Quennell had an unauthorized website of a young woman online and refused to remove it. After he was approached by the police he removed the website immediately. Details between the young woman and the police are her private business. Quennell has not bothered her since and it is now in the past. His creepy behavior continues to be seen daily on his website.

You can read about his behavior here:
http://injusticeinperugia.blogspot.com/2011/06/disturbing-emails-expose-anti-amanda.html

and here:
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/9005274-amanda-knox-a-case-dominated-by-sexual-obsession

and here:
http://injusticeinperugia.blogspot.com/2012/05/truth-behind-hate-campaign-against.html

He also threatened Nina Burleigh:
http://world.time.com/2013/03/29/the-amanda-knox-haters-society-how-they-learned-to-hate-me-too/

Highlighting his behavior was meant to be a warning to others but his diehard supporters don't seem to mind his behavior at all.

Why on earth does Kermit want to bring all of this up again?

 

[Sonia]

In her book Amanda says they took her back on the 3rd or 4th Nov and sent her to check to see if anything was missing while they hung back in the kitchen. She says she forgot to check her rent money (suggesting it was there) and came back and said nothing was missing. I have a theory about this. I reckon the cops had already checked and found her money was there and wanted to see if she would say anything about it. When she didn't it may have raised their eyebrows. The weird thing about this theory is that nothing was ever made of it even though it offered a forensic point against her.

They might also have wanted to see if she spotted her lamp missing except of course they knew who had taken it. She didn't.

Thanks for that. That's an intriguing bit of information. What a shame the investigators didn't follow up on whatever became of Amanda's rent money. If it was missing from her room, they could have dusted the immediate area for prints. Perhaps Rudy made off with double the rent money, not just Meredith's missing 300 Euro. I've often wondered if he tossed Filomena's clothing about looking for her rent money. Rent was due for November, including his, and he was on a mission to get paid. Perhaps that's why he didn't bother to gather up any small consumer electronics or jewelry; he was there for the cash.

When he first broke into the nursery school in Milan, they think he stole nothing but a few thousand Euro, right?

On the other hand, if Amanda's rent money was still stashed in her room on the day of the investigative walk-through, I wonder what became of it? Did one of the cops simply pocket it as a perk of the job? If the money was in her room and she completely forgot about it, I don't think that offers a forensic point against her. More likely she was still in shock and the money she'd worked so hard to save (three jobs) was the last thing on her mind.

 

[RWVBWL]

Wanna go out? Wait a sec,your boyfriend is outta town tomorrow?I wanna come over, OK?

Heya Grinder,
you don't really still believe that Meredith had a 'date' with Rudy,
the night Rudy raped+murdered her,
do ya???

Heya Grinder,
This 1 is for you,
friend:


Ahhh,
Rudy Guede,
he who is unemployed+without a steady job,
he whose landlord wants a, what the heck was it?,
a letter from an employer statin' that the he, the Guede-o
was employed, and yes, indeed, could pay the monthly rent, yayda, yada, yada...
Hmmmm...


So Rudy,
a dude like you,
like me,
who thinks about sex often, every day,
went out with the Spanish gals on Halloween,
who lived above him,
BUT who would not give HIM ANY LUVIN', of any kind.

Hmmmm,
that sucks!!!

Agree???

Rudy says,
in his Skype call to his bro Giacomo,
that he met Miss Meredith Kercher on Halloween night.
with her English girly friends.

Rudy says that Meredith made "an appointment" to meet up the next night,
esh 1 might assume that she "knew" her boyfriend Giacomo was outta town the next night,
even though I gotsta assume that she kinda digs him, no???...


Meredith,
she musta asked for Guede-o's phone #,
+ she musta found out that that Rudy did not have a cell phone,
errrr, because he was poor, did not even have a job...

WTF?
Rudy did not even have a cheapie pre-paid phone then?


But still,
Meredith,
who knew her boyfriend of only 10 days,
(the dude who liked anal sex),
was gonna be outta town,
she already knew what the next evening,
ya know,
was was gonna be like:
BOORING!
Hangin'g out with her English girl friends,
eat some crusty, home baked pizza+some funky apple cobbler,
than bail home...


But wait a sec!
Let's look at the big picture here:
An English girl, FAR from home, all alone,
is wonderin' what to do on a national holiday night???
Study?

Or invite some dude she did not text, email, or even call, nor even meet in the town square,
to come over for "a date"...
For a night of hot sex???

I wonder,
did Meredith cruise around that Town Square,
looking for the Guede-o?
"Hey,
my boyfriend is outta town,
where's the "Guede-o"???
Dude is HOT+
I like **** ***!!!

Hmmmm...
RW



Heya Grinder,
I hope, friend,
I really, really hope that you really do not still believe that
Meredith Kercher invited Rudy Guede over
for "a date" the night she was murdered+raped...
Or do you?

Peace,
RW

 

[Dan O.]

I've often wondered if he tossed Filomena's clothing about looking for her rent money. Rent was due for November, including his, and he was on a mission to get paid. Perhaps that's why he didn't bother to gather up any small consumer electronics or jewelry; he was there for the cash.

If you look closely at the Italian girls rooms, there are minor things that stand out. The bed sheet at the head of Filomena's bed is out of place and the bedside table drawer was closed on the spread. In Laura's room it is more apparent since the rest of her room is immaculately orderly. Also her sock drawer was left open like someone in the process of burgling the room had a sudden bout of indigestion.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

He was good at basketball, not fencing

Rudy did not have much success fencing stolen goods, and he probably needed rent money. I think he was focused on cash.

 

[anglolawyer]

Thanks for that. That's an intriguing bit of information. What a shame the investigators didn't follow up on whatever became of Amanda's rent money. If it was missing from her room, they could have dusted the immediate area for prints. Perhaps Rudy made off with double the rent money, not just Meredith's missing 300 Euro. I've often wondered if he tossed Filomena's clothing about looking for her rent money. Rent was due for November, including his, and he was on a mission to get paid. Perhaps that's why he didn't bother to gather up any small consumer electronics or jewelry; he was there for the cash.

When he first broke into the nursery school in Milan, they think he stole nothing but a few thousand Euro, right?

On the other hand, if Amanda's rent money was still stashed in her room on the day of the investigative walk-through, I wonder what became of it? Did one of the cops simply pocket it as a perk of the job? If the money was in her room and she completely forgot about it, I don't think that offers a forensic point against her. More likely she was still in shock and the money she'd worked so hard to save (three jobs) was the last thing on her mind.

The text suggests the money was there but she did not check it because she forgot. This is actually more interesting as I think about it. Since the cops didn't accompany her they couldn't know whether she checked her money or not.

But think of it their way. A real burglar, given time, would have pinched everybody's money but Amanda's was not taken. That supports the staging theory. So they send her to the room knowing this, giving her a dilemma. Does she know for sure whether they have searched her room and found the money? If she thinks they have, she should (if guilty) return to the kitchen saying nothing's missing, not even her rent money, brazening it out. If she thinks they haven't searched then she breathes a sigh of relief and says nothing about the money, maybe putting it in her pocket.

There are many permutations here. They could have removed the money themselves to see how she would react to discovering it was missing. If guilty, she would have been very puzzled if she had checked and found it missing. How should she react in that case? It's a good game.

Why was it not mentioned in court that the burglar did not steal her cash?

 

[PhantomWolf]

I repeat that the question is with this court will they be able to ignore what they know already? Will they look at the first trial testimony and come to Hellmann's conclusion by just using the evidence in that trial (with a wink to C&V)?

Unless we completely misunderstand the system, a trial de novo must allow for more than just a review. Will the defense be able to bring evidence about Curatolo and heroin use for example?

We'll have to wait for the SC decision on this, but I would think it would be rather hard now to ignore the C&V report because it is out there. It appears that the Defence can introduce new evidence in a second trial, so even if the SC threw out the C&V report, the Defence now has it, they can use it to build their own report, and introduce that. If the SC were to completely ban the conclusions of the C&V report and prevent the defence from introducing anything of it into the new trial than that would be a complete travesty of justice.

 

[RandyN]

snip

Bill said...

"Even then the prosecution cycled through two more motives (sex game gone wrong, and revenge attack against Meredith) until even Massei, the convicting judge, ruled that there was no motive, except for his alleged inexplicable "choice for evil", where even he implies this was totally against their character, and can't even put Amanda in the room forensically.

Yet some here continue to character assassinate. That is interesting."

One more point about the ever changing motives...in the appeal trial Mignini and company asked for more jail time and more solitary confinement because of the new motive he thunk up...What was this evil motive? Nothing! Thats right the prosecution argued for life in prison because the defendants killed for no reason at all...

How on earth do the judges ignore behavior like this in their courtrooms? Mignini should have issued a warrant against himself for making a mockery of the Italian judicial system. Who can take it seriously when clowns like this present a motivation like that?

It is clear the Italians have no clue about integrity of the court. Even Hellmann ignored Stefanonis contempt, ignored Comodis corrupt acts ...she threatened a witness and attempted (twice) to sneak in false control documents and she then went outside and told a reporter (well Piza but anyway) she told him the case is lost. Why? The judges are against the prosecution. And Im pretty sure he printed that. Here in the USA we have free speech...I wonder how well I would be protected for calling the judges corrupt? In a trial and in a courtroom where I am a prosecutor? I bet I end up in jail...

 

[RandyN]

Mary being a girl you just don't understand physics. Ryan must have thrown the ball about 500 mph for it to be going 100 mph when it reached the plate.

Yea but....

dont girl pro softball pitchers throw faster than the average major league pitcher?

and forget Anglos crazy game...named after a bug.

 

[RandyN]

Greetings, friends.

I have just reviewed an interesting and long post on True Justice written by Kermit, who as I understand it has posted on here from time to time, in which he talks about Doug Preston, Bryan Fischer, Steve Moore, among others.

First of all let me start with a small yet significant, probably more so to most Americans than anything to do with Knox, quibble with Kermit. He does a comparison to expose the folly of some silly Google search that Preston did that was a specious attempt to prove his point people are out to get Knox. Kermit does this by using Hillary Clinton in a similar search using key words like bitch and slut and pervert. Now it is curious that Hillary would beat out Knox for Google hits when using slut and pervert, nobody can deny this. There is no evidence, that we know of, that Hillary GETS IT ON with her lesbian partner at or near the murder scene after butchering another woman. But at the same time it is suprisinging Knox beats out Hillary for bitch by a wide margin b/c most people understand immediately that bitch is Hillary's core personality....she's your standard uptight militant feminist. One must not fail to remember it was Hillary Clinton to lead the smear campaign against the various and numerous women accusing Bill of sexual harrrasment and in one case, rape. Al these claims were credible yet HIllary demonized these brave women as "nuts and sluts". What, if not a bitch, does this make Hillary? I shall let you make your own conclusions. I, for one, was surprised to learn that only 5 percent in the google search came up with a hit for Hillary + bitch. I would have assumed at least 50 percent, given Republicans and most independents despise this witch who recently lied about the Benghazi terrorist attacks being nothing more than a sponteneous riot over an obscure anti-Islam video nobody has seen, not to mention that Hillary did nothing to aid in the security of this embasy that left 4 Americans dead. to all of this Hillary angrily proclaimed in the Congressional hearing about it, what does it matter?

Now getting back to Kermit's analysis of these pro-Knox bloggers.
One thing stood out, he claims that the accusations against Peter Quennel are false and that the website which made the claims against Quennel have removed those false claims after Quennel had legal documents served to the accuser. Yet, it appears Bruce Fischer's website still has these claims against Quennel. There seems to be a disconnect here and if anybody can explain it, I will appreciate it. Also understand that I tend not to believe the accusations against Quennel, despite being a liberal and this womanizing behavoir is the primary characteristic of the species as demonstrated by Slick Willie and John Edwars who cheated on his wife dying from cancer for goodness sake, and also it's none of my business anyway. Moreover, it doesn't doesn't mean Knox is innocent if it is true.

It is interesting that Doug Preston seems to just borrow from other people his theory of the MOF murder and does not cite that person for it. I also did not know that Spezi and Preston became interested in attacking the MOF occult theory only after one of Spezi's friends, a pharmacist, was arrested in 2004. You'd think Preston would have made it clear that he thought this pharmacist was innocent in his MOF book, and that was the basis for him looking into and developing "his own" theory about the murders. why be sneaky about that?

Might wanna rethink getting your information from a felt frog...did he have a power point presentation? I love those.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

We'll have to wait for the SC decision on this, but I would think it would be rather hard now to ignore the C&V report because it is out there. It appears that the Defence can introduce new evidence in a second trial, so even if the SC threw out the C&V report, the Defence now has it, they can use it to build their own report, and introduce that. If the SC were to completely ban the conclusions of the C&V report and prevent the defence from introducing anything of it into the new trial than that would be a complete travesty of justice.

Can the defense introduce any evidence at all?

 

[GWCarver]

Thanks for that. That's an intriguing bit of information. What a shame the investigators didn't follow up on whatever became of Amanda's rent money. If it was missing from her room, they could have dusted the immediate area for prints. Perhaps Rudy made off with double the rent money, not just Meredith's missing 300 Euro. I've often wondered if he tossed Filomena's clothing about looking for her rent money. Rent was due for November, including his, and he was on a mission to get paid. Perhaps that's why he didn't bother to gather up any small consumer electronics or jewelry; he was there for the cash.

When he first broke into the nursery school in Milan, they think he stole nothing but a few thousand Euro, right?

On the other hand, if Amanda's rent money was still stashed in her room on the day of the investigative walk-through, I wonder what became of it? Did one of the cops simply pocket it as a perk of the job? If the money was in her room and she completely forgot about it, I don't think that offers a forensic point against her. More likely she was still in shock and the money she'd worked so hard to save (three jobs) was the last thing on her mind.

I will have to go back and review Amanda's book when I have time, but she mentioned finding a few hundred euros in her prison account, and I wondered at the time if they had deposited the money they found in her room for her.

Also, I think Amanda's money being in her room where she left it falls into the category of a cigar just being a cigar at times.

 

[Grinder]

Heya Grinder,
you don't really still believe that Meredith had a 'date' with Rudy,
the night Rudy raped+murdered her,
do ya???

I believe that it is possible that he either had or thought he had a date with her. The first reports said that the sex was consensual and that they thought that it might have been someone she met the night before.

The british girls were known to imbibe to excess and their testimony that Meredith didn't talk to Rudi has no weight for me.

Many here, myself included, think that the Skype call means something. He said Amanda wasn't there and most here believe he was telling the truth. He said that the murder occurred around 9:15 and most here believe that.

He said he went to meet Meredith. The PGP disdain that because Meredith wouldn't make a date with such a low life and the PIP disdain it because they believe that it was a burglary gone bad.

There are aspects of the break-in that make it look possible to be a staged one, but I believe that Rudi definitely was involved with it.

Therefore, his thinking he a had a date or actually had one, then things went haywire and the broken window could be accounted for by Rudi stupidly using his MO to make it look like someone that didn't know her or had a date had done it. He would have believed that she would have shared with her girlfriends but as we know she didn't.

PIP are sure it was a burglary gone bad. PGP are sure the kids staged it after arranging the murder.

I'm not saying my scenario is what happened, but it is possible. Occam and Locard are only rules of thumb.

 

[Grinder]

Not a non sequitur at all. In fact it was both entertaining - for a fellow surfer - and pertinent.

From an experiential account, the post drives home how universal it is that women communicate with their lovers, and even potential lovers, before relations ensue. There is no way on God's green earth that, without so much as having exchanged an email with Rudy Guede, Meredith invited him over to the cottage to hook up.

A teenager would understand that this evil sicko is a liar. And Mignini and Co intentionally tamped down this sort of logic by sequestering Guede with the fast track trial, the prepared statement offered at AK's and RS's appeal, etc.

The fix was in. Moreover, the fix has afforded the opportunity for this scumbag Guede to prance freely out of prison in the not very distant future. It is utterly disgusting and revolting.

There is no evidence that Rudi emailed anybody.

 

[Kaosium]

Can the defense introduce any evidence at all?

Why wouldn't they be able to, it's another trial di novo, right?


They were able to in Hellmann's court.

 

[RandyN]

I'm still on the legality of the DNA report.

Is the issue that the judge ordered this report vs it being submitted as evidence by either the prosecution or defense?

I'm still pissed that Stefoni can withhold info without recourse

I'm about irked enough to jump on a plane and move to Italy for a year, so I can learn how their legal system actually works (& pick up a little italian while I'm there)

This is only from memory but I recall Mignini going on and on about the timeliness of the DNA review...it was too late to request it or some such...this of course only after it was revealed that C&V was a scathing review against the DNA evidence. Prior to release of the report no one had any issues with C and V...they were fine qualified hero's. Prosecution and defense experts all attended the review by the Doctors (this time they were real doctors)

Finally I now recall an odd occurrence... two loads of Perugia police made a trip to Rome to shake down C and V at their places of work. C&V immediately called Hellamnn and basically said WTH? Hellmann questioned Mignini or the police ...cant recall which now.. but they gave the excuse they were looking for the DVD that was presented during C and V testimony. Hellmann rather glibly replied that the DVD in question was and always has been in the Perugia courthouse...so he couldn't understand two car loads of police going all the way to Rome and knocking on the Experts doors.

Sure he knew what was going on...they were trying to shake down the experts...nothing else explains it. And yet he took no sanctions against or ordered any investigation into the matter.

The whole damn system is corrupt. The honest judges are quitting because of it...so whats that leave in Italy's justice system?

These type of matters should have been investigated and fleshed out but no one did it. The defense just wanted to get their clients out of jail...Hellmann just wanted to get out of that stinking rat infested hole of Perugia.

That's what I mean when I say the defense was unnecessary...early on the appeal judges could see what was happening...they bent over backwards to allow the prosecution almost free reign...meanwhile rejecting almost all the appeal points of the defense...cept for those few items...DNA review being one. Hellmann gave them all a chance to save face and their jobs and he even allowed the calumy so as to save Italy the false imprisonment case and charges....

Hopefully the defense will take a more proactive stance this time. Not with these same guys though...or at least bring in someone not afraid to question the irregularities and strange circumstances. Make a case of how this case went wrong...no lawyers at arrest, no recording of interrogation, 3 witness who claim either the threat or actual physical violence by the police. On and on and on and on....so many wrongs...too many to remember.