New Disclosures on Benghazi

[BDBoop]

Apparently Benghazi is over, since it would appear Republicans have returned to the war on women.

In other news, Oklahoma.

 

[The Big Dog]

"They could have used their 9mm pistols to seize heavy weapons from the heavily armed enemy that massively outnumbered them when they got there" would be pretty much exact kind of cartoonish view of military capability that Gates was talking about.

I'll admit, when you frame it like that, it does sound cartoonish! Because it is, in fact it is utterly absolutely ridiculous.

The Libyans were flying them there on their plane, what is the name of god makes you think that Lt Col Gibson and his Special Forces would have to seize weapons at the hands of the "enemy" i.e the people flying them there? I get that you will say just about anything to run cover for the Administration, but at this point you are completely on tilt.

By the way, the highest ranking American Diplomat in Libya was on that plane

 

[RandFan]

I'll admit, when you frame it like that, it does sound cartoonish! Because it is, in fact it is utterly absolutely ridiculous.

The Libyans were flying them there on their plane, what is the name of god makes you think that Lt Col Gibson and his Special Forces would have to seize weapons at the hands of the "enemy" i.e the people flying them there? I get that you will say just about anything to run cover for the Administration, but at this point you are completely on tilt.

By the way, the highest ranking American Diplomat in Libya was on that plane

Again, this is just rhetorical and does not in anyway address the substance of ANTPogo's post.

Try again.

 

[A'isha]

I'll admit, when you frame it like that, it does sound cartoonish! Because it is, in fact it is utterly absolutely ridiculous.

And yet you're going to keep arguing for it, I see.

The Libyans were flying them there on their plane, what is the name of god makes you think that Lt Col Gibson and his Special Forces would have to seize weapons at the hands of the "enemy" i.e the people flying them there?

So, after the hours it took to wrangle up an unarmed cargo plane, you think that the Libyan government would have just turned over heavy weapons to American military personnel?

And did you know that one of these four Special Forces men had his leg in a cast because of a broken foot?

By the way, the highest ranking American Diplomat in Libya was on that plane

No, he wasn't.

 

[The Big Dog]

....

No, he wasn't.

Yeah, the guy you called an idiot, Greg Hicks? He was the highest ranking Diplomat in Libya when he got on that plane.

Funny how Lt. Col Gibson's crew was ready, willing and able to go, broken leg or no (curious how the Obama Administration leaks only things that help them cover their asses, huh? That is old school Chicago style politics).

At least you are not calling the Libyan Government enemies anymore.

The Obama Administration salutes you for your service.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

Yeah, people "seriously" do! (by the way, arguments from incredulity ROCK!)

Hell, senior officials in the Obama administration seriously do:

Thursday, an administration official who was part of the Benghazi response told CBS News: "I wish we'd sent it."

"In fact, FEST leader Mark Thompson says Benghazi was precisely the sort of crisis to which his team is trained to respond."

"Still, nobody knew at the outset how long the crisis was going to last. And officials familiar with FEST say it could have helped pave the way for the FBI to get into Benghazi much faster than the three weeks it ultimately took."

This was all in the article I linked, in this thread. Seriously.

So you think that a group that would have arrived in Libya hours after the CIA annex was evacuated could have prevented the attack that caused the CIA annex to be evacuated? And if you believe that this is an "argument from incredulity" then please explain what FEST would have accomplished.

 

[RandFan]

Yeah, the guy you called an idiot...

Poor form. She has apologized.

 

[The Big Dog]

So you think that a group that would have arrived in Libya hours after the CIA annex was evacuated could have prevented the attack that caused the CIA annex to be evacuated? And if you believe that this is an "argument from incredulity" then please explain what FEST would have accomplished.

It is odd, I posted direct quotes in my post from the actual people involved.

Let me make one a little larger, for your review:

"Still, nobody knew at the outset how long the crisis was going to last. And officials familiar with FEST say it could have helped pave the way for the FBI to get into Benghazi much faster than the three weeks it ultimately took."

"nobody knew at the outset how long the crisis was going to last." Bears repeating, hmm?

 

[A'isha]

Yeah, the guy you called an idiot, Greg Hicks? He was the highest ranking Diplomat in Libya when he got on that plane.

He wasn't on that plane.

Funny how Lt. Col Gibson's crew was ready, willing and able to go, broken leg or no (curious how the Obama Administration leaks only things that help them cover their asses, huh? That is old school Chicago style politics).

Hicks was helping the Obama Administration "cover their asses" in " old school Chicago style politics" when he himself testified that one of Gibson's men had a broken foot in a cast?

Wow, this cover-up conspiracy goes deep!

At least you are not calling the Libyan Government enemies anymore.

I never called them enemies to begin with. You claimed that the pistol-armed group could have obtained weapons by describing the CIA team from the annex in Benghazi "confront[ing] Libyan militia in attempt to commandeer two 50 cal machine guns".

That's not the "Libyan Government".

The Obama Administration salutes you for your service.

Still no explanation of why this is a "scandal", I see.

 

[RandFan]

It is odd, I posted direct quotes in my post from the actual people involved.

Let me make one a little larger, for your review:

"Still, nobody knew at the outset how long the crisis was going to last. And officials familiar with FEST say it could have helped pave the way for the FBI to get into Benghazi much faster than the three weeks it ultimately took."

Here's a hint, it could also have turned into a disaster like black hawk down. We prefer to go into situations with sufficient intelligence.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, hindsight makes for a very poor basis of judgement. Military leaders made a decision and experts have agreed with that assessment.

Again, I'm sorry these are inconvenient facts. But even if we accept your premise. Someone in authority made a decision that you and some others didn't like.

Let me introduce you to life. It's full of danger and risky decisions. Humans are not perfect and cannot look into the future to make their decisions the way you can look to the past to judge them.

BTW: Has anyone else seen more moving of goal posts outside of the CT forum? Three hearings. Months of investigations and nothing to show for it. Just "could have".

 

[The Big Dog]

Goes Deep.

Yeah it does:

"One of the special forces with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson's team was -- was our last military-trained medic available. He had a broken foot in a cast. I still remember him walking -- walking to go and get in the car with his machine gun, carrying a machine gun on his shoulder."

Wonder where he got that, huh, ANTPogo?

All they had were pistols, right?

You claimed that the pistol-armed group could have obtained weapons by describing the CIA team from the annex in Benghazi "confront[ing] Libyan militia in attempt to commandeer two 50 cal machine guns".

I think the knucklehead who leaked that fable about the pistols was full of it. I posted the reference to the CIA team who went and assisted in evacuating the Consulate as an example of the ability of trained men to Adopt - Adapt - Improve

 

[RandFan]

This is a little something I did in the CT 9/11 forum. I made a prediction as to what would become of the CT, "nothing".

So, let me illustrate the difference between confidence and an absence of cognitive dissonance and uncertainty and lots of cognitive dissonance.

My prediction is that this will amount to little or nothing. 16.5, please to make a prediction. Given what you know who will suffer consequences for their actions?

 

[elbe]

I'm starting to think that if Stellar Wind is worth anything representatives of the Pentagon should be showing up at 16.5's house soon to enlist him as a military adviser. It does seem obvious that he knows more than they do.

 

[A'isha]

"One of the special forces with Lieutenant Colonel Gibson's team was -- was our last military-trained medic available. He had a broken foot in a cast. I still remember him walking -- walking to go and get in the car with his machine gun, carrying a machine gun on his shoulder."

Wonder where he got that, huh, ANTPogo?

All they had were pistols, right?

Yes. Hicks has already shown he has no understanding of military matters or equipment (as with his nonsense about F-16s), so his description of a broken-footed soldier walking to a car with his "machine gun" is unreliable at best.

Plus not even an apology for accusing the Obama Administration of leaking something to "cover their asses" in "old school Chicago style politics" that Hicks himself testified to, I see.

And what happened to your claim about Hicks being on the C-130 to Benghazi?

I think the knucklehead who leaked that fable about the pistols was full of it.

I like how you get so offended at anyone daring to insult and criticise Hicks, but are quite happy to call people knuckleheads leaking "fables".

I posted the reference to the CIA team who went and assisted in evacuating the Consulate as an example of the ability of trained men to Adopt - Adapt - Improve

And, again, Hicks admits that the plane was specifically going to Benghazi for the evacuation. Your belief that the four Special Forces men could have John McClaned their way through Benghazi to rescue nonexistent "diplomats" is moot in addition to being cartoonish.

 

[The Big Dog]

Yes. Hicks has already shown he has no understanding of military matters or equipment (as with his nonsense about F-16s), so his description of a broken-footed soldier walking to a car with his "machine gun" is unreliable at best.

Plus not even an apology for accusing the Obama Administration of leaking something to "cover their asses" in "old school Chicago style politics" that Hicks himself testified to, I see.

And what happened to your claim about Hicks being on the C-130 to Benghazi?

I like how you get so offended at anyone daring to insult and criticise Hicks, but are quite happy to call people knuckleheads leaking "fables".

And, again, Hicks admits that the plane was specifically going to Benghazi for the evacuation. Your belief that the four Special Forces men could have John McClaned their way through Benghazi to rescue nonexistent "diplomats" is moot in addition to being cartoonish.

Yeah, well you think Hicks is an idiot, so you are not exactly swimming in credibility here. But you were right, he didn't get on the plane. I'll admit it. It is sad how you are drawing a distinction between Diplomatic staff and technical staff and security staff and CIA staff.

But I tell you what, if you can identify for me the "knucklehead" who leaked that bull **** about the pistols, I'll not only apologize to him, I'll "kiss the son of a bitch."

John McCain huh? You are hell bent and determined to mock these folks by making up nonsense claims:

"We determined that Lieutenant Gibson and his team of special forces troops should go. The people in Benghazi had been fighting all night. They were tired. They were exhausted.

We wanted to make sure the airport was secure for their withdrawal. As Colonel Gibson and his three personnel were -- were getting in the cars, he stopped. And he called them off and said -- told me that he had not been authorized to go. The vehicles had to go because the flight needed to go to Tripoli -- I mean, to Benghazi. Lieutenant Colonel Gibson was furious. I had told him to go bring our people home."

If that sounds cartoonish, take it up with Gibson.

 

[A'isha]

Yeah, well you think Hicks is an idiot, so you are not exactly swimming in credibility here.

Former Bush Defense Secretary Robert Gates thinks Hicks is an idiot too, so at least I'm in good company.

But you were right, he didn't get on the plane. I'll admit it. It is sad how you are drawing a distinction between Diplomatic staff and technical staff and security staff and CIA staff.

Accuracy is never "sad".

John McCain huh?

No, not John McCain. John McClane.

We wanted to make sure the airport was secure for their withdrawal.

In other words, sending those four men would have changed nothing about the situation in Benghazi, and Hicks knew that.

Lieutenant Colonel Gibson was furious. I had told him to go bring our people home."

Then maybe Hicks shouldn't have done something so foolish as to order military personnel around without either the knowledge or the authorization required to do so.

If that sounds cartoonish, take it up with Gibson.

I don't have to; his superior officers did it for me.

 

[The Big Dog]

Former Bush Defense Secretary Robert Gates thinks Hicks is an idiot too, so at least I'm in good company.

The contempt of the Obama apologist for the whistleblowers.

Now some poetry:

“The web of lies they weave / gets tighter and tighter / in its deceit / until it bottoms out – / at a very low frequency – / and implodes…Yet all the while, / the more they talk, / the more they lie, / and the deeper down the hole they go… Just wait…/ just wait and feed them the rope.

The Queen’s Henchmen / request the pleasure of your company / at a Lynching – / to be held / at 23rd and C Streets NW [State Dept. building] / on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 / just past sunset. / Dress: Formal, Masks and Hoods- / the four being lynched / must never know the identities/ of their executioners, or what/ whose sin required their sacrifice./ A blood sacrifice- / to divert the hounds- / to appease the gods- / to cleanse our filth and /satisfy our guilty consciences."

 

[A'isha]

The contempt of the Obama apologist for the whistleblowers.

Former Bush Defense Secretary Robert Gates is an Obama apologist?

Now some poetry:

“The web of lies they weave / gets tighter and tighter / in its deceit / until it bottoms out – / at a very low frequency – / and implodes…Yet all the while, / the more they talk, / the more they lie, / and the deeper down the hole they go… Just wait…/ just wait and feed them the rope.”

The Queen’s Henchmen / request the pleasure of your company / at a Lynching – / to be held / at 23rd and C Streets NW [State Dept. building] / on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 / just past sunset. / Dress: Formal, Masks and Hoods- / the four being lynched / must never know the identities/ of their executioners, or what/ whose sin required their sacrifice./ A blood sacrifice- / to divert the hounds- / to appease the gods- / to cleanse our filth and /satisfy our guilty consciences

Um...okay.

 

[TimCallahan]

The contempt of the Obama apologist for the whistleblowers.

Now some poetry:

“The web of lies they weave / gets tighter and tighter / in its deceit / until it bottoms out – / at a very low frequency – / and implodes…Yet all the while, / the more they talk, / the more they lie, / and the deeper down the hole they go… Just wait…/ just wait and feed them the rope.”

The Queen’s Henchmen / request the pleasure of your company / at a Lynching – / to be held / at 23rd and C Streets NW [State Dept. building] / on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 / just past sunset. / Dress: Formal, Masks and Hoods- / the four being lynched / must never know the identities/ of their executioners, or what/ whose sin required their sacrifice./ A blood sacrifice- / to divert the hounds- / to appease the gods- / to cleanse our filth and /satisfy our guilty consciences

If this is your poetry, keep the day job.

 

[The Big Dog]

Former Bush Defense Secretary Robert Gates is an Obama apologist?

Um...okay.

Show me a quote where he calls Gibson and/or Hicks an idiot.

The poetry is from a later victim of the Administration farcical Benghazi actions,

I'm not surprised you aren't aware of it.