Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Grinder]

I just don't think proving entry is significant. Someone threw the rock from outside. I doubt Raf would have tried it with a 10 lb rock. Whether Rudi entered that way or with Meredith doesn't make much difference.

Testing of those example is one more thing the defense lawyers should have demanded.

 

[Kaosium]

Although sometimes the target of your short temper with people that haven't done the work you have, I admire the work you have and will be doing.

I have always wondered why anyone would pick a ten pound rock, either a burglar or a stager. What would be great to know is the weight of the rock used to smash the window at the lawyers' offices.

One thing I agree with Barbie about is that the defense lawyers did a crappy job in the first trial.

Thanks again for your work.

If someone wanted to make sure they would knock that inner shutter open or loose a heavier rock would be preferable I'd think. It would also ensure a result with as much of the pane broken as possible.

 

[anglolawyer]

I just don't think proving entry is significant. Someone threw the rock from outside. I doubt Raf would have tried it with a 10 lb rock. Whether Rudi entered that way or with Meredith doesn't make much difference.

Testing of those example is one more thing the defense lawyers should have demanded.

How do we know they didn't? It's not like the court was exactly open to defence applications anyway.

 

[bookworm]

I think if we polled the Silent Majority on here, the lurkers who rarely comment, you would find that about 9 out of 10 of them strongly now understand that Knox and Raffe are guilty as charged. there's been a lot of movement toward the prosecution's side in recent days, I can feel it.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

Ally, Ally, in-come-free!!!

Let's hear it.

 

[Grinder]

How do we know they didn't? It's not like the court was exactly open to defence applications anyway.

Prove a negative, tough. I did folow the few court dates and read very account I could find and don't recall them pushing the point. I don't recall the PR supertanker publicizing their efforts.

As you know I'm an advocate of contemporaneous accounts and you are an advocate of books. Do any of the books go over the day to day court hearings?

I would think that CD would highlight the court's refusal to test those items.

 

[Dan O.]

I have always wondered why anyone would pick a ten pound rock, either a burglar or a stager.

The criteria for the rock is that it be small enough to throw, big enough to get the job done and available. All three are evidenced by the fact that the window was broken by the rock thrown through from the outside. For the size of the rock, the bigger the better. It is not the noise of the rock passing through a thin pane of glass that will cause potential occupants to jump up and indicate their presence. It is the sound of that rock falling to the floor inside that will reverberate throuout the house upstairs and down.

What would be great to know is the weight of the rock used to smash the window at the lawyers' offices.

Do up you think Rudy would only burgle using a 10 lb rock? An office presents a different situation where there is not expected to be anyone inside without the lights on. There, a small rock used as a tool to quietly break the glass may be more apropriate.

One thing I agree with Barbie about is that the defense lawyers did a crappy job in the first trial.

Did Barbie say that before or after the verdict?

 

[Grinder]

Ally, Ally, in-come-free!!!

Let's hear it.

 

[anglolawyer]

Prove a negative, tough. I did folow the few court dates and read very account I could find and don't recall them pushing the point. I don't recall the PR supertanker publicizing their efforts.

As you know I'm an advocate of contemporaneous accounts and you are an advocate of books. Do any of the books go over the day to day court hearings?

I would think that CD would highlight the court's refusal to test those items.

Barbie is critical of the defence lawyers, but I think she's the only one. One always has incomplete information with these things. The lawyers may indeed have been crap but Cicero himself would have lost in front of Massei.

 

[Grinder]

Do up you think Rudy would only burgle using a 10 lb rock? An office presents a different situation where there is not expected to be anyone inside without the lights on. There, a small rock used as a tool to quietly break the glass may be more apropriate.

He also was known to carry a small hammer that could be used to break a window. If the rock in the lawyers' office was on the large size, it would add another MO similarity. I agree the situation wasn't identical and if the rock was smaller it prove he didn't do it.

Did Barbie say that before or after the verdict?

After.

 

[Grinder]

Barbie is critical of the defence lawyers, but I think she's the only one. One always has incomplete information with these things. The lawyers may indeed have been crap but Cicero himself would have lost in front of Massei.

Was that Cicero the other lawyer for Rudi?

Amanda's lawyers were chosen badly. A lawyer from Rome that wasn't a criminal defense lawyer that was chosen because he spoke English and a local that was a nice guy.

Did any of the books cover the trial and did they relate that the attorneys did ask for the tests.

 

[Kaosium]

One problem with this DNA profile is the appearance of two extra peaks in locus D3S1358, both of which have a height of about 15-20 RFUs. They have fifteen and sixteen repeats, respectively, and neither of which is part of Meredith’s profile, which has fourteen and eighteen repeats at this locus. These two peaks about about as large as the smallest of the peaks interpreted to be part of Meredith’s profile, yet they were not called in the electropherogram I viewed. This is one more example of bias IMO.

If you were to speculate, what would be some of the more likely causes of those two extra peaks?

 

[DrTesla]

what's interesting to me is Knox enjoys the novel Crime and Punishment.

if you are not familiar with the book, the main character in the book decides to kill this old woman with an axe and steal money from her, as he reasons she doesn't need it any way b/c she will be dead soon. he became obsessed with this idea of killing her even though he knew it wasn't rational but he decided to do it anyway. I was struck by the similarities to Knox who stole Meredith's money it appears, and well as Knox's irrational obsesson with butchering her roommate with a knife.

the rest of the book is him about being paranoid about being caught and I kind of forget the reast of it, he does some good deeds I think (this is supposed to inform us he isn't all evil but a complex person) and then I believe the end the book is about confessing to his crime and seeking redemption.

you guys aren't helping Knox, you think you are, but if you really wanted to help her you would be encouraging her to tell the truth and to seek redemption. Mignini, in fact, wants to help redeem her, not convict her.

Amanda needs to tell us why she butchered poor Meredith that night. going to jail is the only thing that will ease herr mind if she has conscience at all. why did you commit this heinous crime, Amanda, why?

 

[Kaosium]

what's interesting to me is Knox enjoys the novel Crime and Punishment.

if you are not familiar with the book, the main character in the book decides to kill this old woman with an axe and steal money from her, as he reasons she doesn't need it any way b/c she will be dead soon. I was struck by the similarities to Knox who stole Meredith's money it appears.

Considering Rudy was facing eviction and managed to get to Germany somehow and survive there for weeks, Amanda had ~$5k or so in her bank account with more money available at home and Rudy left his DNA with Meredith's blood on the purse and absolutely no traces of Amanda were ever found in that room, what makes you conclude it was Amanda who stole the money?

 

[anglolawyer]

Was that Cicero the other lawyer for Rudi?

Amanda's lawyers were chosen badly. A lawyer from Rome that wasn't a criminal defense lawyer that was chosen because he spoke English and a local that was a nice guy.

Did any of the books cover the trial and did they relate that the attorneys did ask for the tests.

Follain is the only one who gives a hearing-by-hearing account but surprisingly, neither he nor anyone else shows much interest in legal technicalities, almost as though they weren't the most important thing.

 

[DrTesla]

From Wikipedia:
Crime and Punishment focuses on the mental anguish and moral dilemmas of Rodion Raskolnikov, an impoverished ex-student in St. Petersburg who formulates and executes a plan to kill an unscrupulous pawnbroker for her cash. Raskolnikov argues that with the pawnbroker's money he can perform good deeds to counterbalance the crime, while ridding the world of a worthless vermin. He also commits this murder to test his own hypothesis that some people are naturally capable of such things, and even have the right to do them. Several times throughout the novel, Raskolnikov justifies his actions by connecting himself mentally with Napoleon Bonaparte, believing that murder is permissible in pursuit of a higher purpose.

 

[Kaosium]

Follain is the only one who gives a hearing-by-hearing account but surprisingly, neither he nor anyone else shows much interest in legal technicalities, almost as though they weren't the most important thing.

If you happen to have it handy, could you give a summary of what Follain says regarding the Kercher lawyers protesting the "drastic reduction" in Guede's sentence on p. 370?

 

[anglolawyer]

If you happen to have it handy, could you give a summary of what Follain says regarding the Kercher lawyers protesting the "drastic reduction" in Guede's sentence on p. 370?

He doesn't say any more than you just did. Everyone, including Rudy (because he was innocent) was miffed by the outcome.

 

[Kaosium]

From Wikipedia:
Crime and Punishment focuses on the mental anguish and moral dilemmas of Rodion Raskolnikov, an impoverished ex-student in St. Petersburg who formulates and executes a plan to kill an unscrupulous pawnbroker for her cash. Raskolnikov argues that with the pawnbroker's money he can perform good deeds to counterbalance the crime, while ridding the world of a worthless vermin. He also commits this murder to test his own hypothesis that some people are naturally capable of such things, and even have the right to do them. Several times throughout the novel, Raskolnikov justifies his actions by connecting himself mentally with Napoleon Bonaparte, believing that murder is permissible in pursuit of a higher purpose.

I think Amanda has demonstrated on several occasions she's not one of those who's 'naturally capable of murder.' I'd hand her a knife and turn my back to her, my only fear would be she'd break down crying, drop the knife and de-toe herself or something. This is a girl who'd been broken by police in part by them telling her Raffaele had 'dropped' her alibi, and her response (in her note) was to try to understand the pressure both were under.

 

[Kaosium]

He doesn't say any more than you just did. Everyone, including Rudy (because he was innocent) was miffed by the outcome.

I was just wondering if he 'protested' in the press or actually contested Rudy's mitigations (legally in court) which were responsible for the reduction in sentence.

If that happened I would have expected it to be a PMF talking point as opposed to them just saying over and over there was nothing anyone could do about the deal Rudy ended up with.

 

[anglolawyer]

I was just wondering if he 'protested' in the press or actually contested Rudy's mitigations (legally in court) which were responsible for the reduction in sentence.

If that happened I would have expected it to be a PMF talking point as opposed to them just saying over and over there was nothing anyone could do about the deal Rudy ended up with.

I don't get the impression reading Borsini-Bellardi that Maresca addressed the court. It's a while since I read it though. There is really only one line in Follain and it's Maresca reacting to the decision. In what forum he doesn't say.