Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

[Hellbound]

Is the answer to semi-invisible-to-the-eye flooding "Kazakhstan"?

Nope.

Bigger Ly-Azole.

Hellbound waits patiently for his yellow card.

 

[Akhenaten]

That is why I find these threads a mixed bag. Entertaining but a little sad with lots of interesting info to learn. Not from DOC but those that respond to him.

And on the third hand . . . me!

​

 

[Cheesy One]

And on the third hand . . . me!

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/209954b7bb91e6c88e.gif[/qimg]​

Indeed, Oh Wise One!

 

[Slowvehicle]

You can dance if you want to.

You can leave your friends behind.

You can leave your hat on...

 

[Akhenaten]

I'm just putting facts out there.

​

Some support a local flood and some support a global flood.

Some aren't here.

But YOU are.

Which places you, as it happens, in the best position to answer this post:

Your intimation that Pangea was one continent as recently as 6K years ago seems to indicate otherwise.

Suppose you lay out a chronology:

In your opinion, when did 'god' create the world?

In your opinion, when was Pangea last a single continent?

In your opinion, when did the "global flood" happen?

In your opinion, when did the orogeny of the Himalayas happen?

Please to put those 4 events in the order you want to be able to claim that they happened, with the dates you want to wish for them.

People can come to their own conclusions and they should also do their own research because I don't have the time to answer every question.

They have and they've done a far better job of it than you, probably because they haven't wasted their time spamming multiple threads with complete balderdash.

 

[aggle-rithm]

"A massive flood is coming! RUN AWAY!!! Or walk. Walking works too. In fact, I'm gonna do some fishing for a bit, you guys cool with that?"

At the end of the last glacial period sea levels rose fairly slowly. OIS 11 had a sea level rise of 10 cm/year, and is widely considered a good analog for today's climate conditions because it's more extreme than the other interglacials. On a geologic timescale yeah, it's a pretty good rise--but in human terms it simply cannot be called a flood.

"Say, Thag...wall of ice closer today?'

--Gary Larson

 

[aggle-rithm]

I'm just putting facts out there. Some support a local flood and some support a global flood. People can come to their own conclusions and they should also do their own research because I don't have the time to answer every question.

Our own research...?

Should we research ALL the misinformation, or just the stuff consistent with your claims?

 

[TimCallahan]

The bible talks of a worldwide flood. Could marine fossils found 700 meters above sea level be evidence of that?

From the article: Catching a mermaid in Jbeil
By Lara Khouzami

"Lebanon's three main fish fossil sites, Hgula, Haqil (both in the mountains above Jbeil) and An Nammura are the only ones in the Middle East,"

http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/500/550/551/abisaad/

From Brazil Weird News:

The location of the {shrimp fossil} appears strange for a marine animal ... 700 meters above sea level. But it is not a suprise for the scientists. In the same region were also found fossilized remains of a squid that belongs to the same period.

http://brazilweirdnews.blogspot.com/2011/02/peru-fossil-shrimp-from-cretaceous.html

While I haven't been avidly following this thread, it seems to me there's a glaring error in the OP that hasn't really been addressed:

Evidence of a great, worldwide flood should show evidence of terrestrial creatures, including human skeletons, mixed in with the marine deposits. So, DOC does the site in Lebanon show this? Are there large numbers of skeletons of cattle, humans, other mammals, etc. mixed in with the shrimp, squid and fish? In fact, is there any such site in the world?

 

[Sideroxylon]

While I haven't been avidly following this thread, it seems to me there's a glaring error in the OP that hasn't really been addressed:

Evidence of a great, worldwide flood should show evidence of terrestrial creatures, including human skeletons, mixed in with the marine deposits. So, DOC does the site in Lebanon show this? Are there large numbers of skeletons of cattle, humans, other mammals, etc. mixed in with the shrimp, squid and fish? In fact, is there any such site in the world?

Mentioned at least once, but yes it should. There are some hilarious creationist rationalisations out there for the sorting found through the fossil record which they believe was laid down at once.

 

[pakeha]

Nice one, Sideroxylon

Well, to be fair it wouldn't be an even rise all over the world. Some areas would experience more rapid erosion and fall into the sea. We recently found an Egyptian city that was sunk in part via such a mechanism. But yeah, most of it would amount to "I have to walk a shorter distance from my home to get fish than my great-great-grandfather did".

I remember hearing about them, though I don't have any references (by "hearing about them" I mean "was taught about them during a post-graduate course on paleoclimatology", by the way). Basically, the Mediterranian Sea is juuuust ballanced between water coming in and evaporation. This makes it of incalculable value to paleoclimatology studies, as any slight shift results in fairly substantial changes in the basin. Right now, it's got a tad more water coming in than evaporating, so flow is out (though extremely salty, so it's out and down) through the Straits of Gibralter. A slight shift in climate can make a hair less water come in than evaporates. Under those conditions, you can get the Med. Sea largely drying up. When this happened last time, humans were around (as were other animals, which were the parts I was interested in). They walked over the dry land currently at the bottom of the sea. Then there was a fairly catestrophic release at Gibralter--basically, the Atlantic poured into the basin. It was undeniably locally catestrophic, on a scale no living human has witnessed, at the western end of the basin--waterfalls miles high, the ocean cutting into the straits almost fast enough to see, the sea rising nearly as fast... It was not, however, even regionally catestrophic in the sense of causing destruction. The sea level rose fast in the Med. basin, but we're not talking "wipe out everyone" fast, just "we need to make a new city" fast, particularly on the eastern end.The trade routes moved, is all, or they began including boats. ...

Thanks, Dinwar!

When that last happened to the Med, were there already cities in existence in the Eastern part of that basin?

No, it was 5.5 million years ago.

So, before the trade routes, then?

 

[smartcooky]

What does that say.... "Today is a good day to die" perhaps?

 

[Akhenaten]

While I haven't been avidly following this thread, it seems to me there's a glaring error in the OP that hasn't really been addressed:

Evidence of a great, worldwide flood should show evidence of terrestrial creatures, including human skeletons, mixed in with the marine deposits. So, DOC does the site in Lebanon show this? Are there large numbers of skeletons of cattle, humans, other mammals, etc. mixed in with the shrimp, squid and fish? In fact, is there any such site in the world?

I tried a question along those lines:

And in related news some scientists believe Jonah's and the whale's earliest ancestor was the same one celled creature, who ultimately caused Jonah and the whale by unintelligent forces.

Why aren't there any whale fossils in amongst the fish, squid and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru?

No answer came the stern reply.

 

[smartcooky]

So, DOC.

Are you prepared to take up the challenge I posted in post 875?

 

[Slowvehicle]

So, DOC.

Are you prepared to take up the challenge I posted in post 875?

Quoted, just in case DOC has you on ignore...

 

[smartcooky]

Thanks. Hadn't thought of that.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Thanks. Hadn't thought of that.

No worries, Cobber.

 

[Akhenaten]

What does that say.... "Today is a good day to die" perhaps?

My Klingon/Hieroglyphic dictionary has it as "all of your ark are belong to us" but it wouldn't be the first time I've discovered a mistake in the silly thing.

I must consult Young's Literal Translation . . .

 

[SezMe]

... my home office, which is currently being used as bulk storage).

Don't be too hard on yourself.

 

[Dinwar]

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Not MY bulk! Storage of bulk items. Like a chair, tables, and "I don't know where this is going to go, so it goes here!"

 

[SlackerBabbath]

"A massive flood is coming! RUN AWAY!!! Or walk. Walking works too. In fact, I'm gonna do some fishing for a bit, you guys cool with that?"

At the end of the last glacial period sea levels rose fairly slowly. OIS 11 had a sea level rise of 10 cm/year, and is widely considered a good analog for today's climate conditions because it's more extreme than the other interglacials. On a geologic timescale yeah, it's a pretty good rise--but in human terms it simply cannot be called a flood.

Just a 10cm rise upwards ^ can result in a lot more land sideways > disappearing if the land meets the sea at less than a 45 degree angle. My point is, there would have been 'noticable' changes in coastlines within the space of just one generation all over the world, changes that people would naturaly talk about, and due to natural dams being formed here and there then later breaking under the accumulated force of rising water there would also have been several sudden major flooding events too. These too would have been talked about by people.
Reports of these events would have been passed down the generations oraly and eventualy became stories that were exaggerated until we have something along the lines of the Biblical version of the flood.