Planned terrorist attack on English Defence League

[Liam]

If I was British I wouldn't exactly jump for joy at having the worst bits of failed state Pakistan imported into my liberal democracy.

And indeed, many of us are not.

 

[Craig B]

... Britain seems to have rather large community of very insular people with very primitive and bizarre beliefs.

These include the English Defence League, who may well be described as insular, primitive and bizarre. However, beliefs are not nail bombs, and the EDL can believe anything they like, as long as they don't make it the occasion of violence. This goes for British Pakistanis too, if they are who you mean by "the worst bits of failed state Pakistan".

 

[Eddie Dane]

These include the English Defence League, who may well be described as insular, primitive and bizarre. However, beliefs are not nail bombs, and the EDL can believe anything they like, as long as they don't make it the occasion of violence. This goes for British Pakistanis too, if they are who you mean by "the worst bits of failed state Pakistan".

I was referring to a radical sub-set of Pakistanis in the UK.

I buy most of my junkfood from a British-Pakistani shop, and I heartily welcome them and their curry. (Shop situated across the street from an English pub. Now there's marketing smarts).

I'm very able to rationalise this and see that most Pakistanis aren't terrorists.

But when you get an endless stream of terrorist attempts, attacks, incidents coming from a specific group of immigrants who declare themselves enemies of the state they chose to emigrate to, how long will the general population be able to rationalise this?

Hopefully people will already have personal experience with Muslim neighbours, colleagues etc, to mitigate the extremely polarising effects.

WTF is going through these guy's minds?

 

[The Don]

WTF is going through these guy's minds?

Presumably the same kind of stuff that has a minority of white youths joining the EDL or other racist groups.

You're disaffected, you aren't as well off, popular, good with girls, whatever as you want to be and you see that some of "them" are.

Somebody else tells you that it's the system and that the system favours "them". If only you could impose your system, the one that is fair to you then it'll all be OK. You can make a difference, you can be a hero (and be popular, successful, respected) if you take action.

 

[Craig B]

I was referring to a radical sub-set of Pakistanis in the UK.

I buy most of my junkfood from a British-Pakistani shop, and I heartily welcome them and their curry. (Shop situated across the street from an English pub. Now there's marketing smarts).

I'm very able to rationalise this and see that most Pakistanis aren't terrorists.

But when you get an endless stream of terrorist attempts, attacks, incidents coming from a specific group of immigrants who declare themselves enemies of the state they chose to emigrate to, how long will the general population be able to rationalise this?

Hopefully people will already have personal experience with Muslim neighbours, colleagues etc, to mitigate the extremely polarising effects.

WTF is going through these guy's minds?

If you can rationalise this, so can others of the general population. In my home district it cannot be said that there is an endless stream of terrorist attempts, attacks and incidents, I feel obliged to state, though I live (perfectly peacefully) among the largest concentration of Muslims in Scotland. But yes there are bigots, and what goes through their minds I can't imagine.

 

[Eddie Dane]

If you can rationalise this, so can others of the general population. In my home district it cannot be said that there is an endless stream of terrorist attempts, attacks and incidents, I feel obliged to state, though I live (perfectly peacefully) among the largest concentration of Muslims in Scotland. But yes there are bigots, and what goes through their minds I can't imagine.

Yeah, I can rationalise. But I have Muslim friends, shop at a Muslim mini-mart and have a weekly appointment at the curry shop.

If I had to base my opinion on the media, I suspect I might be pretty anti-Muslim.

And that's Dutch media, not that tabloid monstrosity that passes for journalism in the UK.

 

[BigFace42]

Presumably the same kind of stuff that has a minority of white youths joining the EDL or other racist groups.

You're disaffected, you aren't as well off, popular, good with girls, whatever as you want to be and you see that some of "them" are.

Somebody else tells you that it's the system and that the system favours "them". If only you could impose your system, the one that is fair to you then it'll all be OK. You can make a difference, you can be a hero (and be popular, successful, respected) if you take action.

^This. So much this.

Each side is wrapped up in a total belief that the other is getting all the advantage. One side is far more likely to take radical action at this point. I think that is down to the cultures they come from but I do wonder how long before the other side starts going down that route too.

I do think its incumbent on community leaders to really root out this kind of extremism. It's within their own interests but they do need support from government, police etc. to really make a difference.

 

[spin0]

WTF is going through these guy's minds?

On the Royal Canadian Mounted Police website there's an interesting article about that and radicalization in general: Radicalization- A Guide for the Perplexed - June 2009

[contains at least one error: "Virtually all of the planned or actual terrorist attacks in Western Europe and North America since 9/11 have been carried out by young Muslims.", which is not correct.]

Regarding the recent events this “ordinariness” thing has been surprising to some:

“Ordinariness” is a key factor in the domestic radicalization phenomenon. It is what permits apparently integrated, apparently nondescript individuals to become radicalized to the point that they cross the terrorist line, and then to plan and carry out terrorist acts, unnoticed until it is too late. There is no reason that Canadian born terrorists would not like Tim Horton’s doughnuts. It would be more surprising if they did not.

 

[Seeto]

The problem I believe does stem from the Media in the UK. You'll be surprised how many well-to-do individuals read the tabloids. the latent racism that it breeds in them is quite astonashing

It doesn't surprise me that radical groups like the EDL form, especially when you start throwing in economic issues like youth unemployment into the mix.

Generally there is a myth in the UK that illegal immigrants receive preferential treatment over UK citizens (especially white). but this argument has never been reliably sourced.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

Britain seems to have rather large community of very insular people with very primitive and bizarre beliefs.

...snip...

Yep.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

Horrible small minded idiots try to blow up horrible small minded idiots.

Reminds me of the 'casuals' scene in football in some ways.

We should just find a way to let them fight it out in isolation from people who just want to get on with their own business. Maybe the BBC could put it on against BGT?