Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

[pakeha]

What about these fossils found in the Mountains of Lebanon 2500-3000 feet above sea level in two villages? I saw a Travel show about Lebanon that said 20% of world's fish fossils are in Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleontological_sites_of_Lebanon

Hi, DOC.
Thanks for the link.
I knew nothing about the fossil beds in Lebanon and am glad to have learned something before dinner!

By the way, from your link
"The Late Cretaceous was characterized by very high sea levels. During that time fossil-bearing limestone was formed.[6]

One of the recent discoveries was made in 1989. M. Malez and A. Forsten described Hipparion from the Bekaa Valley.[7]
Another find was a snake with two legs. This provided a valuable example of evolution at work, illustrating how ancient lizards became modern snakes. [8]"

How long did the Late Cretaceous last, DOC?
And isn't that an interesting find, that transitional fossil?

...http://www.layevangelism.com/advtxbk/sections/sect-10/sec10-5.htm

talk about evidence for a flood and give a possible explanation for the above rarity:

"Thousands and millions of fish fossils which retain all the body parts indicating very rapid burial. Under normal conditions, fish do not fossilize. Dead fish are torn apart by scavengers and disintegrated by bacteria. There are the existence of fossils with soft tissue like jellyfish and sponges. There are the preservation of animal tracts, fish odors..."

"Fossilization requires rapid burial. Yet such burial is exceedingly rare today, and fossilization is almost non-existent in modern times. The existence of massive numbers of fossils worldwide is clear evidence of quick, deep, mass burial. A global flood catastrophe would offer conditions most ideal to the location of great numbers of fossils. The fossils give evidence that the animals were killed suddenly." ...

Oh, DOC, why give a link to layevangelism?
It's a perfect example of quote-mining apologism.
Leave science explanations to people who understand the field!

 

[AdinDraco]

They predate the alleged flood by at least 65 million years, that's what about them.





I saw an episode of Red Dwarf that showed a Tyrannosaurus Rex eating a cow vindaloo.

OMG, I watched that tonight with my daughter (for reals!! she's working her way through the complete collection). This CANT be coincidence, therefore...flood...or something...

OT - I totally didn't think about the fossils actually being of a certain measurable age and therefore significally predating any so-called flood. I mean I knew how the fossils got up there but....learn something knew everyday - that's why I lurk.

 

[Lucian]

Hi, DOC.
Thanks for the link.
I knew nothing about the fossil beds in Lebanon and am glad to have learned something before dinner!

By the way, from your link
"The Late Cretaceous was characterized by very high sea levels. During that time fossil-bearing limestone was formed.[6]

One of the recent discoveries was made in 1989. M. Malez and A. Forsten described Hipparion from the Bekaa Valley.[7]
Another find was a snake with two legs. This provided a valuable example of evolution at work, illustrating how ancient lizards became modern snakes. [8]"

How long did the Late Cretaceous last, DOC?
And isn't that an interesting find, that transitional fossil?




Oh, DOC, why give a link to layevangelism?
It's a perfect example of quote-mining apologism.
Leave science explanations to people who understand the field!

Fie! If you leave science to the experts, you may end up with biblically unsound misinformation!

 

[Correa Neto]

Ohn you folks don't get it...
The fossils are younger than the rocks, because:
A) The devil created them to fool you, to feed your pride, steering you away from the everloving god's path.
B) They are forms of life caught in the process of being created. Somehow it was interrupted, maybe because god was not happy with its creation, maybe because it failed, thus not rising and becoming a living being.
C) They were burrowing animals.

Because fossils being of the same age -or even older (as it may actually happen)- than the sediments would be something against the Bible.
Unthinkable, unlikely, impossibel, outrageous, heresey!

BTW, god stopped the Sun in the sky?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Folks, the evidence in the fossils has been staring us in the face all along. The creationists were right. The interpretation of the evidence is so simple:

The Bible talks about a world wide flood, of a world wide flood, of a world wide flood
If there really was a world wide flood, what would the evidence be?
Billions of dead things buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth
Billions of dead things buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth
Well there really was a flood, just look at the stony curse with billions of dead things buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth.​

Sing along with me now:


How adorably moronic.

 

[tsig]

Ohn you folks don't get it...
The fossils are younger than the rocks, because:
A) The devil created them to fool you, to feed your pride, steering you away from the everloving god's path.
B) They are forms of life caught in the process of being created. Somehow it was interrupted, maybe because god was not happy with its creation, maybe because it failed, thus not rising and becoming a living being.C) They were burrowing animals.

Because fossils being of the same age -or even older (as it may actually happen)- than the sediments would be something against the Bible.
Unthinkable, unlikely, impossibel, outrageous, heresey!

BTW, god stopped the Sun in the sky?

A new fundie meme "The fossils are god's discards from the creation process".

 

[Slowvehicle]

So, the fossils in mountains are evidence of a global flood. Because the flood could have been 100 of millions of years ago, Except that the bible may have been talking merely about a local flood, in which case only sealife fossils found near Israel is evidence of a local flood. And the fossils found elsewhere are evidence of?
And dating of these fossils are questionable now because they would make them millions and millions of years old.

...NOW yer talkiin'...

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A new fundie meme "The fossils are god's discards from the creation process".

God's error rate would get Him sacked in any company I've ever worked for. The fundies make their god look bad without any help from us. This may spring from the fact that they're pig-ignorant.

 

[Hellbound]

This may spring from the fact that they're pig-ignorant.

I'm sorry, I find that highly offensive.

There's good evidence that pigs are among the smarter animals in existence.

 

[Akhenaten]

Do you know anything about fossils at all?

Anything?

Do the terms 'Jurassic' and 'Cretaceous' mean anything to you?

You are answering questions with questions.

Yes, I am. Did the question mark tip you off?

That in itself is surprising.

Anyway, here's another question (or, at least, the same question reiterated since you accidentally snipped it from your last response to me):


Why are you avoiding this post, DOC?

Your intimation that Pangea was one continent as recently as 6K years ago seems to indicate otherwise.

Suppose you lay out a chronology:

In your opinion, when did 'god' create the world?

In your opinion, when was Pangea last a single continent?

In your opinion, when did the "global flood" happen?

In your opinion, when did the orogeny of the Himalayas happen?

Please to put those 4 events in the order you want to be able to claim that they happened, with the dates you want to wish for them.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm sorry, I find that highly offensive.

There's good evidence that pigs are among the smarter animals in existence.

Smart enough to have not created any religions (we know of), true.

ETA: At least one religion has sprung from the swinish worship, of course.

 

[Akhenaten]

We find lots of fossils in volcanic rocks, do we DOC?

They are found in rocks formed of volcanic ash layers, which are also conveniently amenable to radiometric dating. I am sure our much valued resident paleontologist will be along shortly to answer all Doc's questions about fossils.

Pompei is a classic example of preservation via ash entombment. If they'd been undisturbed long enough they might have wound up in some museum in the far distant future.

Well, yes, I know these things and might easily enough have surmised that you blokes knew them as well, but my purpose was to gauge/demonstrate the level of DOC's understanding.

Whole 'nother thing.

 

[Akhenaten]

I saw an episode of Red Dwarf that showed a Tyrannosaurus Rex eating a cow vindaloo.

OMG, I watched that tonight with my daughter (for reals!! she's working her way through the complete collection). This CAN'T be coincidence, therefore...flood...or something...

Is there anything we can't learn from Red Dwarf?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Well, yes, I know these things and might easily enough have surmised that you blokes knew them as well, but my purpose was to gauge/demonstrate the level of DOC's understanding.

Whole 'nother thing.

Should have been obvious. Apologies for the underestimation, mate.

 

[carlitos]

The show was Globe Trekker. It was their episode on Beirut and Lebanon.
It had a woman host. She went to the fossil area and a worker there actually found a fish fossil right on camera when he carefully broke open an approx. 10 inch by 10 inch solid rock.

I remain skeptical of your characterization of what this woman said. If it's anything like your reading comprehension, your viewing comprehension muddies the translation from what she said to what you think you heard. I will continue to happily live my life doubting that 20% of the Earth's fish fossils are to be found in the tiny country of Lebanon.

 

[Akhenaten]

Were the fossils estimated to be that old or was the material surrounding them estimated to be that old?

Just try to think about this a little.

If the rock surrounding them is that old, then what does this imply about the fossils encapsulated in the rock?

I can't wait to see whether DOC tries for "6,000-year-old fossils in 65,000,000-year-old rocks" or "65,000,000-year-old fossils in 6,000-year-old rocks"

I anticipate hilarity, either way.

 

[Akhenaten]

Should have been obvious. Apologies for the underestimation, mate.

No problemo, my friend.

 

[Hokulele]

...

"Fossilization requires rapid burial. Yet such burial is exceedingly rare today, and fossilization is almost non-existent in modern times. The existence of massive numbers of fossils worldwide is clear evidence of quick, deep, mass burial. A global flood catastrophe would offer conditions most ideal to the location of great numbers of fossils. The fossils give evidence that the animals were killed suddenly."

...

Well, aside from the fact that not all fossils are the same age. But who care about the details, right?

 

[Akhenaten]

Well, aside from the fact that not all fossils are the same age. But who care about the details, right?

At midnight in the museum hall
The fossils gathered for a ball
There were no drums or saxophones,
But just the clatter of their bones,
A rolling, rattling, carefree circus
Of mammoth polkas and mazurkas.
Pterodactyls and brontosauruses
Sang ghostly prehistoric choruses.
Amid the mastodontic wassail
I caught the eye of one small fossil.
"Cheer up, sad world," he said, and winked—
"It's kind of fun to be extinct."

- Ogden Nash (1949)​

 

[Slowvehicle]

At midnight in the museum hall
The fossils gathered for a ball
There were no drums or saxophones,
But just the clatter of their bones,
A rolling, rattling, carefree circus
Of mammoth polkas and mazurkas.
Pterodactyls and brontosauruses
Sang ghostly prehistoric choruses.
Amid the mastodontic wassail
I caught the eye of one small fossil.
"Cheer up, sad world," he said, and winked—
"It's kind of fun to be extinct."

- Ogden Nash (1949)​

I would pay money to hear Christopher Walken, or Neil Patrick Harris, read the Nash poems as incidental narration for Le Carnaval des Animaux performed on Ukelele by Jake Shimabokuro...