Explosion at the Boston Marathon.

I posted this article by Seth Mnookin on the CT thread, but think it's relevant here too as the Naked Man was discussed previously. Mnookin also addresses the chaos and confusion that was evident that night:

It was a little after 1 A.M. last Friday morning when the person who has since become known as “the naked man” was briefly detained by police as they searched for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in the streets of Watertown. By 3 A.M., it was clear that he was not, in fact, connected to the Boston Marathon bombings—he was merely someone who had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at exactly the wrong time. So why has he become a magnet for conspiracy theories?

The answer has to do with the chaos of that night, beginning with the murder of M.I.T. police officer Sean Collier around 10:30 P.M.

[...]

This chaos and confusion was only amplified by the number of people on the ground: I counted officers from at least a half-dozen different agencies, including Watertown, Newton, Cambridge, and Boston police; the Massachusetts State Police; and the M.B.T.A. Transit Police. It seemed to me that many were unsure who was in charge.

This, then, was the situation when police found a young man with dark-brown hair alone in a car.

The Naked Man, Watertown, and Conspiracy Theories
Click to expand...
 
newyorkguy said:
A former FBI agent I saw interviewed on CNN said the same thing. That to produce the amount of black powder needed for the two bombs that were detonated -- never mind the other five or six they were said to possess -- would require a lot of fireworks.
Click to expand...
And?

newyorkguy said:
A lot of time and a lot of effort. He said it didn't sound entirely plausible to him.
Click to expand...
You fail to identify him in any way, and to identify how much tim and effort was expended.

newyorkguy said:
He also raised the point that he was a bit suspicious that the two brothers could've constructed the pressure-cooker bombs on their own with no guidance other than printing out directions from an Internet site. Suspicious because they apparently worked so well.
Click to expand...
They had instructions which they then failed to follow? That's plausible?
 
newyorkguy said:
A former FBI agent I saw interviewed on CNN said the same thing. That to produce the amount of black powder needed for the two bombs that were detonated -- never mind the other five or six they were said to possess -- would require a lot of fireworks. A lot of time and a lot of effort. He said it didn't sound entirely plausible to him.

He also raised the point that he was a bit suspicious that the two brothers could've constructed the pressure-cooker bombs on their own with no guidance other than printing out directions from an Internet site. Suspicious because they apparently worked so well.
Click to expand...

Also, there was only about 10 seconds between Dzhokhar walking away from the second bomb and detonation, which doesn't seem like a great distance to me. I wondered how they knew what was a safe distance?
 
davefoc said:
As one of the inane bleaters, this sounds reasonable to me. But I think the topic may have died out on its own. Perhaps best, would be if anybody has an irresistible compunction to beat this dead horse some more they could start a thread completely dedicated to it.

ETA: Whoops, I just noticed Kestrel's dead horse beating above my post, so maybe there is life left in the topic, if not the horse.
Click to expand...


Ooh, if you think something like these Boston bombings is going wrap up in a nice little tidy package in just a few days, I think you'd be mistaken. IMO, there is a lot more water to flow under the bridge yet.

Already we're hearing about the Russian security services wiretapping a telephone conversation between one of the brothers and his mother, (the so called "jihad" conversation) back in 2011. They FBI has also been searching for Tamerlan's missing laptop computer; no indication as to whether they have found it yet.

This is not a dead horse by any stretch, quite the contrary, things are just getting started.
 
newyorkguy said:
A former FBI agent I saw interviewed on CNN said the same thing. That to produce the amount of black powder needed for the two bombs that were detonated -- never mind the other five or six they were said to possess -- would require a lot of fireworks. A lot of time and a lot of effort. He said it didn't sound entirely plausible to him.

He also raised the point that he was a bit suspicious that the two brothers could've constructed the pressure-cooker bombs on their own with no guidance other than printing out directions from an Internet site. Suspicious because they apparently worked so well.
Click to expand...

This guy was a expert, huh? Those firework mortar rounds make a very loud bang when they go off, I'd be surprised if it would have taken all that many to make the bombs. Did the expert state how many would have been required for use in the Boston Marathon devices?

And he was suspicious that the brothers could have made the bomb on their own? How much expertise does it take to connect the output of a model car remote to set off some gun powder. The Mythbusters make that sort of thing look pretty easy to me. Somebody suggested the brothers were a bit on the dim bulb side above and it doesn't look like they were all that bright to me, but my guess is that almost everybody that is participating in this thread could put together an effective remote controlled bomb with off the shelf parts in a day or so without any connection to foreign training or supplies and that it wouldn't have been that hard either for the brothers.

Perhaps he was just another one of those random talking heads that the news networks use to fill up the time when they have nothing new to talk about.
 
Last edited:
Magenta said:
Also, there was only about 10 seconds between Dzhokhar walking away from the second bomb and detonation, which doesn't seem like a great distance to me. I wondered how they knew what was a safe distance?
Click to expand...
Still easy. You are talking to an Irishman who has endured the troubles, the bombs, the snipers. I have a more than passing familiarity with how it works, and by that, I do not mean I was a participant, but a witness. Safe distance my derriere. Duck around a corner, or into a doorway? job done. That's how those yahoos did it for years.
 
newyorkguy said:
A former FBI agent I saw interviewed on CNN said the same thing. That to produce the amount of black powder needed for the two bombs that were detonated -- never mind the other five or six they were said to possess -- would require a lot of fireworks. A lot of time and a lot of effort. He said it didn't sound entirely plausible to him.
Click to expand...

I recall hearing something similar. Made a lot of sense to me.

After all, they drove to NH for fireworks. Why not just buy the black powder in that state (so that MA's requirements are irrelevant)?

A brief Google search didn't tell me NH's laws regarding the purchase of black powder.
 
newyorkguy said:
A former FBI agent I saw interviewed on CNN said the same thing. That to produce the amount of black powder needed for the two bombs that were detonated -- never mind the other five or six they were said to possess -- would require a lot of fireworks. A lot of time and a lot of effort. He said it didn't sound entirely plausible to him.

He also raised the point that he was a bit suspicious that the two brothers could've constructed the pressure-cooker bombs on their own with no guidance other than printing out directions from an Internet site. Suspicious because they apparently worked so well.
Click to expand...
You can't have it mail ordered to Massachusetts. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...=SBC;MMcat104792580;cat104701680;cat104511780

But it seems it would be pretty easy to get otherwise.
 
phiwum said:
After all, they drove to NH for fireworks. Why not just buy the black powder in that state (so that MA's requirements are irrelevant)?
Click to expand...

Another issue CNN and other news sources say the FBI is interested in, relating to the Tsarnaev brothers skill in constructing these bombs.

FBI agents are in Russia now trying to trace Tamerlane Tsarnaev's movements during January-July 2012 when he was there. One issue they're looking into is whether he may've been in contact with local Jihadists who may have given him some IED training.
 
The mortars that you see in professional fireworks displays are 5" in diameter. Commercial mortars are at most 2.5" and more commonly 1.5" to 2". I've seen them being sold many times here in California from the trunks of cars right around a month before the 4th of July. Out here they all come from China and are very much illegal but unless you're caught selling them they are simply confiscated and you are sent on your way (on the 4th of July anyway).

For those that don't know what a mortar is, it's a ball or cylinder shaped charge that has a fuse on the side and a lifting explosive charge on the bottom. You light the fuse and it drops (when the fuse burns down and allows the charge to drop) into a cardboard tube with a plastic base provided in the mortar kit. After about a second the lifting charge goes off sending it into the air (varying heights depending upon the firework but 50' at least for the smaller ones). About a second or so after they leave the tube they explode sending colored sparks made of various compounds (or other smaller fireworks) spraying from the explosions center. The tube is then reused for the next mortar.

A quick look online says that the Lock and Load kit is 24 mortars and the reviews all say that it's very loud. The packaging proclaims them "Barely Legal" so I'm guessing that they are of the 2.5" variety.
 
abaddon said:
Still easy. You are talking to an Irishman who has endured the troubles, the bombs, the snipers. I have a more than passing familiarity with how it works, and by that, I do not mean I was a participant, but a witness. Safe distance my derriere. Duck around a corner, or into a doorway? job done. That's how those yahoos did it for years.
Click to expand...

That might be it. Dzhokhar was still on the same street, but he may well have picked out a convenient doorway to duck into.
 
Sam.I.Am said:
For those that don't know what a mortar is, it's a ball or cylinder shaped charge that has a fuse on the side and a lifting explosive charge on the bottom. You light the fuse and it drops (when the fuse burns down and allows the charge to drop) into a cardboard tube with a plastic base provided in the mortar kit. After about a second the lifting charge goes off sending it into the air (varying heights depending upon the firework but 50' at least for the smaller ones). About a second or so after they leave the tube they explode sending colored sparks made of various compounds (or other smaller fireworks) spraying from the explosions center. The tube is then reused for the next mortar.
Click to expand...

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/everyday-innovations/fireworks1.htm

http://www.pirotehnicari.com/vatrometi/rampe.html
 
phiwum said:
I recall hearing something similar. Made a lot of sense to me.

After all, they drove to NH for fireworks. Why not just buy the black powder in that state (so that MA's requirements are irrelevant)?

A brief Google search didn't tell me NH's laws regarding the purchase of black powder.
Click to expand...

I think he may have wanted to stay as far under the radar as possible, so not going near any firearms shop even in New Hampshire, if a similar product is available at a fireworks shop. And who's to say he didn't buy more at other fireworks shops with cash.
 
Arisia said:
I think he may have wanted to stay as far under the radar as possible, so not going near any firearms shop even in New Hampshire, if a similar product is available at a fireworks shop. And who's to say he didn't buy more at other fireworks shops with cash.
Click to expand...


There are 4 shops along the same highway in the Seabrook area and one more on the state line by the coast aptley named "Foreworks Over the Border".

I wonder if we are going to see an increase in vigilantism with people staking out those shops and notifying the MSP when someone drives in from Massachusetts and makes a large purchase.
 
Today in The New York Times older brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev is profiled. Link

There's some evidence the elder Tsarnaev may have become disillusioned with life in the United States after his dream of becoming a professional boxer was stymied. This was because in 2011 the Golden Gloves competition in Massachusetts -- the conventional route amateur boxers follow -- was restricted to American citizens.

Tamerlane Tsarnaev was known as a fierce puncher but also lackadaisical in his training regimen.

Tsarnaev said he quit amateur boxing because of his growing devotion to Islam. But friends and even family say he turned to Islam following the end of his boxing career not before it.

His activities during his trip to Russia in 2012 are in dispute as well. His reason for traveling to Russia was to obtain a Russian passport. But he apparently waited months before applying for a Russian passport, and then returned to the United States before the passport was ready.

The Times reports that the Russian security service told the F.B.I. that Tsarnaev had become “a follower of radical Islam,” and the real purpose of the trip was to connect with underground militant groups.

His father has disputed that his son had any contacts with militant groups, claiming to have been in close contact with his son throughout the visit. However, that is also apparently untrue.

...His father said he had kept his son close by his side as they visited relatives, including in Chechnya, and renovated a storefront into a perfume shop. But American officials say Mr. Tsarnaev arrived in Russia months before his father returned to Dagestan and so did not have the continuous tight supervision described by his father.
Click to expand...
 
Don't forget that there's a huge difference between a given charge of powder blowing apart a paper cylinder and blowing apart a strongly-constructed aluminum vessel.

For years, the favored explosive for mob-types who liked to blow each other up with pipe bombs was...Match heads. Pretty mundane placed in a pile on the ground and ignited... But confined within a quality pipe nipple...
Bomb circuitry is frighteningly simple to construct. I admit to having fooled with such things in my youth (hehe...40 years ago) when I was in the army.
I had a copy of the Special Forces "improvised explosives" manual and constructed several circuits.... No great skill required.
Taught me that all that movie silliness of "cut the red wire" is just nonsense.
 
Bikewer said:
Taught me that all that movie silliness of "cut the red wire" is just nonsense.
Click to expand...

During WW2, the Germans built bombs that blew up if you didn't follow the proper procedure to disarm them. The intent was to kill the bomb disposal experts. But you are right that the absurdly complex mechanisms shown in Hollywood movies are just plain silly.

The screwy part is that even in Boston the authorities have mistaken a blinking circuit board for an actual bomb. Hollywood bombs have blinking lights and counters to attract attention, real bombs don't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom