Explosion at the Boston Marathon.

There's a federal tie in when you buy bulk black powder (the ATF gets involved in that you have to sign a form and provide an ID at the point of purchase) but any yahoo can go buy fireworks with cash and walk away with it with no paper trail. These guys apparently used a debit\credit card to buy the fireworks though so that was the trail that tied them back to the fireworks shop.

I suppose that if you didn't want to let anyone know that you had recently purchased ~3 lbs of black powder that the extra $125 would be worth it to cover your trail.
 
Sam.I.Am said:
There's a federal tie in when you buy bulk black powder (the ATF gets involved in that you have to sign a form and provide an ID at the point of purchase) but any yahoo can go buy fireworks with cash and walk away with it with no paper trail. These guys apparently used a debit\credit card to buy the fireworks though so that was the trail that tied them back to the fireworks shop.

I suppose that if you didn't want to let anyone know that you had recently purchased ~3 lbs of black powder that the extra $125 would be worth it to cover your trail.
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I don't like speculating, but I do get the impression that they expected not to be found simply by melting back into their normal lives. That they were surprised, even, to be caught so quickly. But that is just an impression, take it for what it is.
 
triforcharity said:
Bombs are quite easy to make.
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That seems to be true, bombs are quite easy to make. We also have discussed the Inspire article (and I believe the allegation that was the source of the Tsarnaev brothers' bomb-making abilities came from Dzhokhar Tsarnaev himself).

However, what I was referring to were these two pieces of information in a recent Wall Street Journal(link):


It isn't yet known if the powder from fireworks was used in the Boston bombings, and authorities continue to search for any other explosives purchases and possible accomplices who may have provided materials for the bombs, U.S. authorities said...Mr. Weimer of Phantom Fireworks in Youngstown, Ohio, said that his company believes that the quantity of powder in the fireworks wouldn't have been nearly sufficient to produce the Boston blasts.
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abaddon said:
I don't like speculating, but I do get the impression that they expected not to be found simply by melting back into their normal lives. That they were surprised, even, to be caught so quickly. But that is just an impression, take it for what it is.
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Based solely upon their actions I don't disagree. But one of the ways to melt back in would be to not have a federal level paper trail to follow back to you. One would have to assume that the FBI\ATF would analyze the residue, see black powder and than go to any places that sell it in bulk within a hundred miles and see who has purchased black powder in the last few months and then go talk to those people. It does have a limited use legally (muzzle loaders for the most part) so if the people who bought it didn't have a muzzle loading rifle (or some other legitimate use) then they would be getting much closer scrutiny.
 
newyorkguy said:
That seems to be true, bombs are quite easy to make. We also have discussed the Inspire article (and I believe the allegation that was the source of the Tsarnaev brothers' bomb-making abilities came from Dzhokhar Tsarnaev himself).

However, what I was referring to were these two pieces of information in a recent Wall Street Journal(link):
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In that article there are conflicting opinions.

Other experts, however, said people could make a bomb from such fireworks. "It's a rather primitive way to build an explosive device, but you could do it," said John Conkling, a chemist with decades of experience in fireworks. "You would also have a good chance of blowing yourself up.''
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The people saying that it couldn't be done are people who stand to lose money (a pyrotechnics lobbying group spokesperson and the store that sold the fireworks) if tighter fireworks regulations are the result of this bombing.
 
Sam.I.Am said:
There's a federal tie in when you buy bulk black powder (the ATF gets involved in that you have to sign a form and provide an ID at the point of purchase) but any yahoo can go buy fireworks with cash and walk away with it with no paper trail. These guys apparently used a debit\credit card to buy the fireworks though so that was the trail that tied them back to the fireworks shop.
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If I recall correctly, the federal government considers a bulk purchase to be 50 pounds of black powder or more.
 
Kestrel said:
If I recall correctly, the federal government considers a bulk purchase to be 50 pounds of black powder or more.
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The web sites that I looked at (buying 1 lb cans) all required that you fill out an ATF form and provide a positive ID and a signature when it is delivered.
 
Sam.I.Am said:
In that article there are conflicting opinions.
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That was my point, how they constructed the bombs and what materials they used has not been established. Yet.

There's also the matter that the roughly three pounds of black powder they acquired from the two fireworks kits would not have been enough to arm the eight bombs they apparently had.

There's more to this it seems.

Plus I think since Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was read his Miranda rights he has stopped cooperating.
 
Agreed, there is conflicting opinions in the article. I'm not a chemist, but I can tell you that even sparklers can be used to make a quite efficient bomb. It's time consuming, but very doable.

I buy a lot of BP from different suppliers, as I reload for shooting. If I buy more than a pound, I fill out paperwork, and it requires my signature on delivery.
 
newyorkguy said:
That was my point, how they constructed the bombs and what materials they used has not been established. Yet.

There's also the matter that the roughly three pounds of black powder they acquired from the two fireworks kits would not have been enough to arm the eight bombs they apparently had.
There's more to this it seems.

Plus I think since Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was read his Miranda rights he has stopped cooperating.
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According to the Terrorist Explosive Device Analytical Center, they deviated somewhat from the Inspire articles, which suggest that they either had some education, or different training than what is found in Inspire. Their perliminary conclusion is that the explosive is consistent with commercial fireworks. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324743704578447212196070792.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

WRT the hilited. Is this YOUR opinion, or some experts' opinion? My guess, and again, just a guess, but maybe they bought more fireworks than we know about? Or maybe they added or modified the black powder to make more of it? It's not unheard of, but that would require some kind of expertise, as doing it incorrectly would make it inert.

Yes, the scumbag stopped talking, which is most likely in his best interest.
 
Dan O. said:
Is that a feigned response or can you really not see it?
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What's the big deal about stating what you want to state obviously? Neither of us understood what you meant about hobbyists being shot; sarcasm or muted humor don't always translate well in a text environment.
 
Dan O. said:
Is that a feigned response or can you really not see it?
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Really can't see it. Would you please explain?

Much thanks. Sorry if I'm being obtuse here.


I was being obtuse.

I finally got it.
 
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Apparently they didn't strictly follow the Inspire article's directions:

With explosive material placed in pressure cookers and nails and other small parts added to make them more lethal, the devices tracked the Inspire recipe. But their triggers were different, the FBI report said.

The Inspire instructions suggest wires from a car alarm or similar device be used to make triggers. The Boston bombers used hobby fuses and a radio controller for a toy car to detonate the pressure-cooker bombs, the report said.
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Link
 
newyorkguy said:
That was my point, how they constructed the bombs and what materials they used has not been established. Yet.

There's also the matter that the roughly three pounds of black powder they acquired from the two fireworks kits would not have been enough to arm the eight bombs they apparently had.

There's more to this it seems.

Plus I think since Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was read his Miranda rights he has stopped cooperating.
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1 lb of gunpowder has the potential to exert about 500 ft tons of force in the right conditions. In real world conditions it's more like 1/10th to 1/5th of that. Guns that use black powder don't use a lot of powder per charge and overdoing it will cause the gun to blow up when fired. The usual reload amount is in the 2-3 gram range (15 grains = 1 gram) max. It wouldn't take as much as you seem to think that it would.

This is what 1 lb of black powder burning in an unconstrained state looks like (take note of the amount of smoke produced in comparison the the pictures from Boston):



These bombs weren't really all that powerful in a relative sense. Look at the range that they had and what damage they did to their surroundings (scorched but no prominent crater, even on asphalt in the case of the one used in the street shootout). The human damage was mainly caused by the shrapnel placed inside the pressure cooker and not from the blast effects from the detonation alone.
 
Sam.I.Am said:
This is what 1 lb of black powder burning in an unconstrained state looks like (take note of the amount of smoke produced in comparison the the pictures from Boston):
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The first thing that I noticed is that idiot is in the middle of a dry grassland and he hasn't even cleared the immediate area. I tried to flag it on YouTube but they require a login to make a report. Is there any indication of which state that ******* is in? He needs to be reported and stopped before he starts yet another wildfire.
 
triforcharity said:
I've never bought black powder in MA, so I don't know what restrictions there way be. I have bought it down here, and it's relatively cheap and easy. Maybe he thought by buying fireworks, his plan was less likely to be discovered?
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When I was a kid in Massachusetts, I used to make black powder from easily obtainable ingredients. A friend of mine almost blew his house off its foundations with it (and nearly killed himself in the bargain). I suspect it's not particularly difficult to get one's hands on the stuff, one way or the other.
 
BenBurch said:
I'd love it if they found that in a journal!
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As your opponents hope for a Muslim Brotherhood smoking gun; Egyptian involvement would be icing on that cake.

ps. Posts like yours must be taking valuable time from your efforts to repeal 2nd amendment. :D
 
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