• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Merged Heaven is Real... Newsweek 10-15-12

We both do. I can't wait to see your proof that there is no life after death.

That there is no God.
How does one prove a negative when it comes to something that cannot be detected?

Or, is it a stalemate?
I don't make the claim that there is no god. I simply lack a belief in god since there is no evidence. You make a positive claim. An extraordinary claim. Got evidence?
 
We both do. I can't wait to see your proof that there is no life after death.

That there is no God.

Or, is it a stalemate?

I do not know if there is life after death. However, I am open to evidence that there could be. Do you have any?

I do not know if there is a god, but I have never seen any positive evidence that there is, so I do not believe. Do you have any evidence that might change my mind?

By evidence, I don't mean wish-thinking or fairy tales or stories that make us feel better on a cold lonely night.
 
Even if true it's entirely irrelevant to the discussion. Even if true it would still be a fallacy.

Perhaps you don't know that I was a Mormon missionary. When I came to this forum a decade ago I was a Cartesian dualist, deist and right-wing conservative. I passionately argued for my positions. My ability to be persuaded is demonstrable. Since coming to the JREF I now support the rights of gays and lesbians, support the legalization of marijuana and prostitution. And of course I believed in the supernatural (I was a Nostradamus fan) but am now an atheist. I can change back anytime. I just need evidence.

There are 7 billion people in this world and trillions of events happening every moment. If many one-in-a-billion coincidences didn't happen daily, we would live in a very, very strange world. See Innumeracy.

First off, a natural explanation will always be more parsimonious than a supernatural explanation. Alien probes, solipsism, idealism, matrix, brain in a vat, are all preferable alternatives. But there is something far more parsimonious that has explanatory power and makes predictions so that we can falsify the hypothesis. It's what the brain typically does in those situations.

Rhetorical device. I can assure you that as a skeptic this means absolutely nothing to me. I rely on logically valid argument backed up with evidence. Do you have any of that?
Perhaps you don't know but I was brought up a very Conservative Catholic.

Life then happened.

Long story. But I thankfully , through the grace of God, quickly realized some of those beliefs were true idiocy.

So yes, I now support many of the same beliefs as you.

I support atheists, I support Muslims, I support gays, I support Jews, I support transgenders, I support Catholics, I support blacks, I support red, white and blues, I support everyone who lives their life trying to be kind.

And my God does, too.

Perhaps, you and I are not so different.

At least in terms of what really matters.

And as far as evidence goes, who cares? As long as you are kind.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps you don't know but I was brought up a very Conservative Catholic.

Life then happened.

Long story. But I thankfully , through the grace of God, quickly realized some of those beliefs were true idiocy.

So yes, I now support many of the same beliefs as you.

I support atheists, I support Muslims, I support gays, I support Jews, I support transgenders, I support Catholics, I support blacks, I support red, white and blues, I support everyone who lives their life trying to be kind.

And my God does, too.

Perhaps, you and I are not so different.

At least in terms of what really matters.

And as far as evidence goes, who cares? As long as you are kind.
Nearly everyone I know and love is a theist. I have no malice towards theists. But that is all beside the point. A.) This is a skeptics forum. B.) I want to know as many true things as I can. C.) I believe in the power of dialog to overcome superstition and instill in more and more people the desire to be skeptical and to think critically.
 
Nearly everyone I know and love is a theist. I have no malice towards theists. But that is all beside the point. A.) This is a skeptics forum. B.) I want to know as many true things as I can. C.) I believe in the power of dialog to overcome superstition and instill in more and more people the desire to be skeptical and to think critically.
My guess would be you know many true things. If only they weren't the product of your imagination, or coincidence , or brain function or ....

Bottom line ...doesn't matter... Be nice...be kind... And eventually we'll all be hanging out together. Or maybe not. But even then , wouldn't it have been better living a kind life?

And as far as thinking critically... yes that's important. Just remember to keep an open mind while you're doing it.
 
Last edited:
I do not know if there is life after death. However, I am open to evidence that there could be. Do you have any?

I do not know if there is a god, but I have never seen any positive evidence that there is, so I do not believe. Do you have any evidence that might change my mind?

By evidence, I don't mean wish-thinking or fairy tales or stories that make us feel better on a cold lonely night.
And I am open to evidence that there is no life after death.

Or God.

Do you have any?

And by evidence I don't mean wish-thinking or fairy tales or stories that make us feel better on a cold, lonely night.

Checkmate?
 
Last edited:
You're still playing checkers. The person making the positive claim bears the burden of proof. We've been discussing this for months now. What is it you do not understand?
I understand you are playing games.

And I don't think you realize it.

Stop. And think. Really, think.

You don't agree , that's fine.

My guess is you are a nice person.

And that's big.
 
Last edited:
I understand you are playing games. Stop. And think. Really, think.
You don't agree , that's fine. My guess is you are a nice person.
And that's big.

Geez, no. I'm trying to help you understand the mechanics of a logical argument. And why yours aren't logical, so far.
 
My guess would be you know many true things. If only they weren't the product of your imagination, or coincidence , or brain function or ....

Bottom line ...doesn't matter... Be nice...be kind... And eventually we'll all be hanging out together. Or maybe not. But even then , wouldn't it have been better living a kind life?
Again, I believe it's good to be kind but that's irrelevant to the discussion. This is the Religion and Philosophy sub forum of a skeptics forum. Telling me to be nice is off topic. I don't mind it but if you don't want to be relevant then why bother responding to me? I don't dislike you or other people. I'm a humanist (which calls for kindness) and even if I wasn't I find that kindness is an excellent strategy for a happy life. So I've no idea what you are on about.

And as far as thinking critically... yes that's important. Just remember to keep an open mind while you're doing it.
My mind is so open that I hold all beliefs provisionally.
 
Ah, I hate to be the one to do this, but is it at all possible to get Robin her own thread? This doesn't really seem to have anything to do with LDS?

This is an excellent suggestion.

Robin, start a thread. Any woo will do.
 
Again, I believe it's good to be kind but that's irrelevant to the discussion. This is the Religion and Philosophy sub forum of a skeptics forum. Telling me to be nice is off topic. I don't mind it but if you don't want to be relevant then why bother responding to me? I don't dislike you or other people. I'm a humanist (which calls for kindness) and even if I wasn't I find that kindness is an excellent strategy for a happy life. So I've no idea what you are on about.

My mind is so open that I hold all beliefs provisionally.
OK Randfan, you are pushing me to the brink here (not purposely, I'm sure) but whaddya truly think of the whole "kumbaya" connection. For me, too weird not to have meaning. To you, just a coincidence?

Aaahhhhhhhhh, I give up.

For now....
 
OK Randfan, you are pushing me to the brink here (not purposely, I'm sure) but whaddya truly think of the whole "kumbaya" connection. For me, too weird not to have meaning. To you, just a coincidence?

Aaahhhhhhhhh, I give up.

For now....
I've not a clue what this is supposed to mean. The topic of this thread is "LDS". Do you have something to say relevant to the thread?
 
I've not a clue what this is supposed to mean. The topic of this thread is "LDS". Do you have something to say relevant to the thread?
I guess not.

I do get carried away sometimes.

Sorry about that.

Peace.
 
Last edited:
I understand you are playing games.

And I don't think you realize it.

Stop. And think. Really, think.

You don't agree , that's fine.

My guess is you are a nice person.

And that's big.

The nastiest person in the world could make a perfectly logical, convincing argument.
The nicest person in the world could be totally incapable.

In short: nice and nasty have absolutely no relevance to reality
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom