Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

[kmortis]

And Bunyips!

And the US got the jackalope. What a wonderful world it is.

 

[Akhenaten]

They're a more primative type of mammal. What I mean is, they retain many ancestrial traits that later mammals do not, including egg-laying and a few others. They are, in essence, a transitional form from reptile to mammal (though very much after the mammals split from reptiles).

Thank you. I know about the egg-laying thing and the nippleless lactation. I was just checking whether they constitute a category separate from either placental or marsupial.

I'll just leave this here:

 

[Lucian]

I'll just leave this here:

Aw, I adore the crocoduck-billed platypus, especially his crazy, crossed eyes.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Aw, I adore the crocoduck-billed platypus, especially his crazy, crossed eyes.

That's the plush crocoduck-billed platypus.

 

[Agatha]

Here is one opinion on your statement.

The below excerpt from a scientist is just 3 weeks old and contains the very latest science:

<snip>

When Did Mitochondrial Eve and Y Chromosomal Adam Live?


http://www.reasons.org/articles/when-did-mitochondrial-eve-and-y-chromosomal-adam-live

He goes on to say at the end of the article: "The scientific and biblical stories of human origins harmonize quite well."

Did you actually read this article, DOC? Despite the above conclusion suggesting that science and the Biblical stories harmonise, the article states that mitochondrial Eve lived 157,000 +/- 40,000 years ago, which fits with the best currently available data estimating mEve's age of between 190,000 and 200,000 years.

The article is extremely cagey about assigning a date to Y-chromosomal Adam, preferring to dismiss the latest research simply because it does not fit with the Biblical concept of Adam and Eve living at the same time.

The article assigns a date for YcA of between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago, despite the latest scientific research placing YcA at between 271,000 to 581,000 years ago. This predates modern humans, because Homo sapiens evolved from an earlier species. Prior to this 2013 research, the YcA was thought to be 50,000 to 60,000 years ago.

The article also makes the error of assuming that mEve and YcA need to have lived at the same time, which is perhaps a common error but is a simple misunderstanding of what mE and YcA represent, and that the dates are not fixed but are variable, as lineages die out. mE and YcA represent the most common recent ancestors (MRCA) of humans based on maternal mitochondrial DNA and the paternal Y chromosome.

The fact that the MRCA are so far before the proposed date of the Biblical flood indicates that there was no Biblical flood. If there had been, the MRCA for all species including humans would have lived at about this date of about 4,000 years ago.

 

[smartcooky]

Case in point: "There are no transitional fossils".hoods spewed by Bible literalist, YEC and Creationist scammers?

I think DOC makes the common mistake in understanding the period of the dinosaurs; the broad assumption that all the different species lived throughout the 250 MYA (Triassic) to 66 MYA (Cretaceous) period until they were all wiped out by the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event.

They didn't. Over that 190 million year period, there were over 1000 different species on non-avian dinosaurs, but only a very small percentage of them were extant on the planet at any one time.

I hear people saying things like "Allosaurus" and "Tyrannosaurus" were a couple of bipedal carnivores (Theropods) that walked the earth during the time of the dinosaurs, and went extinct 66 million years ago.... this is wrong.

Tyrannosaurus was only around for about 1½ million years, and it did get wiped out in the mass extinction event, but Allosaurus was extant for about a five million year period, 155 million years ago. It was already long gone when the extinction event took place; Allosaurus and Tyrannosaurus missed each other by about 90 million years. "transitional fossils of Theropoda exist throughout the age of dinosaurs, and beyond.

The vast majority of species that existed during the age of the dinosaurs were already extinct when the Chicxulub asteroid impact took place.

 

[smartcooky]

Some laughs for anyone who hasn't seen Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory*

** YOU TUBE VIDEO **

About the only thing right is in the opening narration where questions about the flood are cast as a major headache for Bible literalists.

That is about as preposterous an idea that I have ever seen to justify the flood! Truly hilarious that any fool could actually believe this dreck!

 

[Dinwar]

The vast majority of species that existed during the age of the dinosaurs were already extinct when the Chicxulub asteroid impact took place.

To make matters worse, there was the End Triassic mass extinction that everyone ignores. It's one of the Big Five, 140 million years before the K/Pg extinction, yet people simply gloss over it.

Some laughs for anyone who hasn't seen Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory*

I can't see youtube videos just now, but there's a YouTuber named WildWoodClaire that has a rather epic takedown of the hydroplate theory. Her "Coffee with Claire" segment has gone more political than I like, but when she focuses on geology it's fantastic.

 

[Sideroxylon]

To make matters worse, there was the End Triassic mass extinction that everyone ignores. It's one of the Big Five, 140 million years before the K/Pg extinction, yet people simply gloss over it.

I can't see youtube videos just now, but there's a YouTuber named WildWoodClaire that has a rather epic takedown of the hydroplate theory. Her "Coffee with Claire" segment has gone more political than I like, but when she focuses on geology it's fantastic.

Yes, Claire is great. Well worth a subscription to. I vaguely remember her video on hydroplate. She has also done at least one on Snelling who appeared in the other video I posted recently in this thread. She mostly tackles pretty much anyone talking baloney about geology and explains it so clearly and with charm.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Here's some more brilliant creationist scholarship on the flood, with great commentary by potholer54.

 

[Donn]

"Coffee with Claire"

Oh hell yes! She's fantastic. In that mode, I propose a "Dimbulb of the forum" award ...

 

[sackett]

Dick who?

... DOC don't know dick.

I'm sure that Doc knows several gentlemen named Richard. Whether they cross the street when they see him coming is quite irrelevant.

You're being presumptuous. Please try to raise the tone of this learned, erudite discussion.
Thank you.

(Thank the nice man, Doc.)

 

[smartcooky]

To make matters worse, there was the End Triassic mass extinction that everyone ignores. It's one of the Big Five, 140 million years before the K/Pg extinction, yet people simply gloss over it.

I thought the Tr-J event wiped out mostly non-dinosaurian archosaurs, thereby enabling the dinosaurs to fill the vacated ecological niches it created.

I can't see youtube videos just now, but there's a YouTuber named WildWoodClaire that has a rather epic takedown of the hydroplate theory. Her "Coffee with Claire" segment has gone more political than I like, but when she focuses on geology it's fantastic.

Here it is



I quite like her "Travels with Creatards" series as well...

 

[pakeha]

Apart from the fact, already mentioned, that they were not contemporaries, Mitochondrial Eve is not a fixed individual (nor is Y-chromosonal Adam), and will change over time as descendants on a particular line die out.

You're going to hopelessly confuse DOC with that, zoots.

I think DOC makes the common mistake in understanding the period of the dinosaurs; the broad assumption that all the different species lived throughout the 250 MYA (Triassic) to 66 MYA (Cretaceous) period until they were all wiped out by the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event.

They didn't. Over that 190 million year period, there were over 1000 different species on non-avian dinosaurs, but only a very small percentage of them were extant on the planet at any one time.

I hear people saying things like "Allosaurus" and "Tyrannosaurus" were a couple of bipedal carnivores (Theropods) that walked the earth during the time of the dinosaurs, and went extinct 66 million years ago.... this is wrong.

Tyrannosaurus was only around for about 1½ million years, and it did get wiped out in the mass extinction event, but Allosaurus was extant for about a five million year period, 155 million years ago. It was already long gone when the extinction event took place; Allosaurus and Tyrannosaurus missed each other by about 90 million years. "transitional fossils of Theropoda exist throughout the age of dinosaurs, and beyond.

The vast majority of species that existed during the age of the dinosaurs were already extinct when the Chicxulub asteroid impact took place.

Thanks for that post. I learned a lot from it.

 

[SezMe]

smartcooky's link done right.

 

[smartcooky]

smartcooky's link done right.

Thanks.

I keep forgetting to drop the url and just leave the ID string.

This is the only site I post in that does it this way

 

[Sideroxylon]

smartcooky's link done right.

Claire: "You have to ignore so much information when you are a creationist." Totally sums up what you have to do to believe a global flood occurred. And there is nothing erudite about the knowledge that you have to ignore - much of it is firmly supported foundational knowledge taught in high school.

 

[DOC]

The article also makes the error of assuming that mEve and YcA need to have lived at the same time...

Can you give the sentence where this is said, I don't remember reading that?

 

[DOC]

For the record, not all Christian apologists believe the flood was global, some believe it was local. Dr. Hugh Ross believes it was a local flood.

 

[zooterkin]

Can you give the sentence where this is said, I don't remember reading that?

Did you read the whole article? Did you think of reading it again?

Here are some of those sentences:

We suggest that the ancestral mitochondrial and Y chromosomal sequences correspond to a primordial couple, the biblical Adam and Eve.

I argue that mitochondrial Eve is indeed the biblical Eve.

He then goes on to massage the dates to get YcA and mEve at the same date (completely misunderstanding what they are, of course).

When Who Was Adam? was written, a large discrepancy existed between the dates for mitochondrial Eve (150,000 to 250,000 years ago) and Y chromosomal Adam (50,000 to 60,000 years ago). Now, based on better estimates of mutation rates for mitochondrial DNA, use of larger regions of the Y chromosome, and inclusion of rare Y chromosome variants, the dates for mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosomal Adam converge around 150,000 years ago.

(There is no expectation that the two would be contemporaries.)