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Pup said:
I guess you could make that claim if you wanted to deliberately leave out vital context and stretch the meaning of words, but I'm not sure what the purpose would be. ..
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My purpose is to figure out how people can believe the BoA, a proven scam, is scripture. The cognitive dissonance involved fascinates me.

In any case, if I've understood you, it's revelation, not personal revelation nor the burning in the bosom that trumps scripture.
If I'm wrong there, please let me know.

Empress said:
...Congrats on your upcoming china wedding anniversary! I'm very happy for the two of you!! :)
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Let me add my congrats as well!
 
Myriad said:
Instead, what is being tested is how much regard, empathy, and love you have for your fellow mortal human beings.

Wouldn't it be marvelous and appropriate if your score in your earthly trial, the exaltedness of your position in the afterlife, depended directly on how many other people you wished and expected to share that position with? Those with prideful and selfish expectations of being "the elite" would actually be the opposite. They're the ones who, in their earthly trial, learned the least from mortal life, held their fellow humans in the least regard, tried to convert them instead of love and respect them, cast the seeds of their charity and goodwill upon the narrowest stoniest ground.

Now the trial finally makes sense. The heavenly pyramid you imagine is inverted. God is at the base, with everyone; not an exalted former mortal who climbed upon a high throne but a Holy Spirit that encompasses all, loves all. Those who imagine themselves the most elite, the most separate from everyone, the apex of the pyramid, are the farthest from God.

"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."
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Myriad -

Thank you for this post.

As soon as I concluded reading it I new I would comment on it before to long.

Janadele -

Did you read this post? It's post #5668. After I read it I had a "burning in my bosom". It wasn't an actual warmth in my chest. It was my conscience and my humaness and my imagination and my creativity and my love for our planet, it's inhabitants, it's people, our lives, today here and now.

What I see in the Mormon, and many, of the churches of today, I have actually heard preached against by the authorities in the Mormon church. I mean the authorities to whom you have given your time, talents and money.

They called it: Spiritual Arrogance.

Do you not see how you look down on your fellow brothers and sisters in humaness. How you have the arrogance to pretend to see our faults whilst not seeing your own.

Janadele, I don't suppose you are able to recognize when someone is trying to actually free you. You think there is a man (a god) who is in your head and heart, who listens to all your thoughts and feelings, to assess and value your worth.

It is not true. Your worth is unquestionable.

Your worth is unquestionable. Your conscience is your own. You're responsible for your own actions. There is no one else, but all of us, in the same boat.

No one is tallying your sins. Your conscience is the only thing that can be crossed. Do not give it to someone else to be responsible.

To quote The Beatles.....Everyone of us, is all we need.
 
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deaman said:
Myriad -

Thank you for this post.

As soon as I concluded reading it I new I would comment on it before to long.

Janadele -

Did you read this post? It's post #5668. After I read it I had a "burning in my bosom". It wasn't an actual warmth in my chest. It was my conscience and my humaness and my imagination and my creativity and my love for our planet, it's inhabitants, it's people, our lives, today here and now.

What I see in the Mormon, and many, of the churches of today, I have actually heard preached against by the authorities in the Mormon church. I mean the authorities to whom you have given your time, talents and money.

They called it: Spiritual Arrogance.

Do you not see how you look down on your fellow brothers and sisters in humaness. How you have the arrogance to pretend to see our faults whilst not seeing your own.

Janadele, I don't suppose you are able to recognize when someone is trying to actually free you. You think there is a man (a god) who is in your head and heart, who listens to all your thoughts and feelings, to assess and value your worth.

It is not true. Your worth is unquestionable.

Your worth is unquestionable. Your conscience is your own. You're responsible for your own actions. There is no one else, but all of us, in the same boat.

No one is tallying your sins. Your conscience is the only thing that can be crossed. Do not give it to someone else to be responsible.

To quote The Beatles.....Everyone of us, is all we need.
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Hear, hear!
 
deaman said:
...Your worth is unquestionable. Your conscience is your own. You're responsible for your own actions. There is no one else, but all of us, in the same boat.

No one is tallying your sins. Your conscience is the only thing that can be crossed. Do not give it to someone else to be responsible.

To quote The Beatles.....Everyone of us, is all we need.
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Thanks for the reminder, deaman.
 
Here are a couple interesting books written by former LDS members.

An American Fraud; One Lawyer's Case Against Mormonism
Kay Burningham

An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
Grant Palmer
 
GT/CS said:
Here are a couple interesting books written by former LDS members.

An American Fraud; One Lawyer's Case Against Mormonism
Kay Burningham

An Insider's View of Mormon Origins
Grant Palmer
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Very interesting. Can you give us a little rundown on what An American Fraud is all about? Was there a court case?

Thank you, GT/CS.
 
I read An Insider's View of Mormon Origins several years ago, and recall enjoying it. I remember being surprised b/c I got the impression that he was still an active Mormon. Whether he stated that or I simply assumed it, I can't say, and I'd have to go find the book in my overloaded bookcases to be sure.

I couldn't see how someone could be so clear as to the false origins of the church and still be a member, but I recall having the idea that he was at least nominally still LDS.

Looks like An American Fraud is available for Kindle, so I believe I shall have to buy it. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
GT/CS said:
No, it's not about a court case. The author is an attorney.
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I guess my Google-Fu still works. Here you go folks:

The first third of An American Fraud. One Lawyer's Case against Mormonism, chronicles the Author's journey out of the Religion. The second part of the book is an exposé, including an analysis under the law. The Author, an experienced civil trial attorney, places the activities of Mormon leaders over almost two centuries in their proper legal framework, analyzing not only the misrepresentations, but the resulting damages: political, environmental and especially psycho-social.

The fraud committed by generations of Mormon leaders is that they have consistently misrepresented the facts surrounding the source of their scriptures. Neither the golden plates, nor writings by the Old Testament prophet Abraham, claimed to have been inscribed on purchased Egyptian papyri, ever existed. Furthermore, the claimed visitations by biblical apostles to restore lost priesthoods to Smith and his colleagues never occurred. Yet for decades LDS leaders have at least ignored, if not suppressed and grossly misrepresented, what has been proven to be the true facts surrounding Mormonism's origins, reworking and re-packaging the founding facts and the theology as necessary
 
I'm not bothered enough to read this book, but I thought I'd put it out there for anyone who may be interested. I'm posting the TOC to give an idea of what it's about. Page numbers of the TOC omitted for clarity.

Between Pulpit and Pew : The Supernatural World in Mormon History and Folklore
Reeve, W. Paul van Wagenen, Michael Scott
Pages: 254
Publisher: Utah State University Press
Location: Logan, UT, USA
Date Published: 05/2011
LC Call Number: BX8611 -- .B48 2011eb
eISBN: 9780874218237
pISBN: 9780874218381
Dewey Decimal Number: 398.2088/289309792
OCLC Number: 741614045

Contents

Foreword
Elaine Thatcher

1 Between Pulpit and Pew: Where History and Lore Intersect
W. Paul Reeve and Michael Scott Van Wagenen

2 A Mormon Bigfoot: David Patten’s Cain and the Conception of Evil in LDS folklore
Matthew Bowman

3 “As Ugly as Evil,” and “As Wicked as Hell”: Gadianton Robbers and the Legend Process among the Mormons
W. Paul Reeve

4 Raising the Dead: Mormons, Evangelicals, and Miracles in America
Matthew Bowman

5 Singular Phenomena: The Evolving Mormon Interpretation of Unidentified Flying Objects
Michael Scott Van Wagenen

6 A Currency of Faith: Taking Stock in Utah County’s Dream Mine
Kevin Cantera

7 A Nessie in Mormon Country
Alan L. Morrell

8 Walking on Water: Nineteenth-Century Prophets and a Legend of Religious Imposture
Stanley J. Thayne

Selected Bibliography
Contributors
Index​
​
 
halleyscomet said:
Can anyone comment on the Mormon position regarding vasectomies?
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http://www.lds.org/handbook/handboo...-church/selected-church-policies/21.4#21.4.15

The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. Surgical sterilization should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2) birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer.
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Edited to add: So that this isn't just a cut-and-paste of church doctrine, I'll just add a comment. It seems that the church's general philosophy is to encourage married couples to have children, going back to the founding when being fruitful, multiplying, and raising children in the church was one way to encourage growth of church membership, and of course that's still true.
 
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Our Heavenly Father has commanded us to multiply and replenish the earth. Providing mortal bodies for His Spirit children is central to God’s purposes for humanity. When husband and wife are physically and mentally able to provide the basic necessities of life for their children, then they have the privilege and responsibility to bring children into the world and to nurture them.
 
Janadele said:
Our Heavenly Father has commanded us to multiply and replenish the earth. Providing mortal bodies for His Spirit children is central to God’s purposes for humanity. When husband and wife are physically and mentally able to provide the basic necessities of life for their children, then they have the privilege and responsibility to bring children into the world and to nurture them.
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And just think how many more offspring you can have if you get yourself a passel of wives to bear them. Oops. Polygyny isn't allowed anymore is it? So much for Eternal LawTM.
 
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