Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

[DOC]

Two point five million years ago we are talking about Homo habilis, a user of stone tools and incapable of building a massive ship.

Neither old or young earth creationists believe the great flood was that long ago.

 

[AdMan]

If we didn't have free will, we would basically be robots. God could have programmed us to obey all rules and to love him. But true love is not programmed love.

God created us, yes? He gave us free will, and even though he's omniscient, he decided to blind himself to his omniscience in order to allow our free will--is that what you're saying?

Did that blinding absolve him of all responsibility for what he created? All "free will" is simply based on whatever characteristics he decided to give us. "Free will" is simply an illusion if there is an omnipotent, omniscient god.

It's all his own fault, whatever happens. He can't absolve himself of blame, simply by saying, "I decide not to know, even though I knew what I was creating, and I could know if I wanted to."

What does this have to do with fossils, anyway?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Neither old or young earth creationists believe the great flood was that long ago.

Just as well.

Can you see how the distribution of animal species, particularly evident in the marsupials of Australia, contradicts the idea that all living creatures disembarked from the Ark in eastern Anatolia some 4,000 years ago?

There was no global flood.

 

[SezMe]

Maybe God felt it was in the best interest of the world to start over. He might of realized there was no hope because of great amount of "free will" evil that existed at that time. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over.

Some might say, why didn't God see this coming before he created humanity. The answer is free will. In order to guarantee perfect free will, God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act.

Maybe God doesn't want evil people corrupting the universe and ruining it for everyone else all throughout eternity. So he made a special place for those people who choose to continually disobey his simple laws.

The red of should be "have".

Maybe I have an oak tree living in my shorts. It might have a squirrel living in it. I could remove it but won't because the answer is free will.

Fairy tales are so much fun, DOC.

 

[pakeha]

...So if at one time the land that now makes up the world's highest mountain range was under water, one can make a conclusion that at one time the entire planet could have been under water.

Yes, but the evidence shows that the area of those plates that created the Himalaya mountains was at one time under water. So if this area was under water at one time, as well other mountain ranges, one can conclude that there is a distinct possibility that the whole world was under water at one time.

Nope.

Some areas have never been underwater. And there's never been a time when all the continents were underwater at the same time.

After ignoring several whole fields of science, this hardly seems difficult.

Ouch.
I'd like to learn more about the areas that have never been underwater, Dinwar.
My google-fu has failed miserably this morning (all I found were references to the Isua complex in Greenland and in the Jack Hills of Australia) so could you post up some links on the subject, please?

Maybe God doesn't want evil people corrupting the universe and ruining it for everyone else all throughout eternity. So he made a special place for those people who choose to continually disobey his simple laws.

The bible says God wishes none should perish, but he chose to make laws to prevent chaos just like humanity today makes laws (some having the death penalty) to prevent chaos.

His simple laws?
Death for being raped?
Death for homosexuality?
Are you serious, DOC?

 

[DOC]

No it doesn't

The science says that the earth was entirely covered with water 2.5 BILLION years ago. There were no lifeforms higher than algae or bacteria.

So as someone asked earlier in the thread where do you believe all the water went?

The bible says that the earth was entirely covered with water 4300 years ago.

The lifeforms on the planet were essentially the same as those which exist now.

The two are inconsistent with each other...

Then you believe the earth could be covered with water once but not a second time?

 

[DOC]

His simple laws?
Death for being raped?
Death for homosexuality?
Are you serious, DOC?

Actually I believe those were Moses' laws of the Old Testament. Christ brought the New Testament.

ETA http://whitedragonawa.wordpress.com...ual-laws-in-the-bible-gods-law-is-still-holy/

 

[Slowvehicle]

Neither old or young earth creationists believe the great flood was that long ago.

Then why, in the name of a Marmot-stalking Stephenson, do you pretend that the fact that, at one time, that land that forms the current Himalayas was deposited, over many millions of years, at the bottom of a shallow sea had, or has, anything to do with "biblical flood"?

Where do you, personally, suppose that the sediments deposited at the bottom of that shallow sea came from? From what did those sediments erode?

If your 'god' could have made it so that no one spent eternity in eternal torment, but did not so, then it is silly to pretend that any "soul" in "hell" is there of their own "free will". If your 'god' knew that some would not believe in it, but created them that way anyway, then it is silly to pretend that your 'god' can be excused for being "surprised" at how its creations behaved.

And is is just as silly for you to pretend use the bible as evidence of the truth of the bible in this thread as it is inany other.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Actually I believe those were Moses' laws of the Old Testament. Christ brought the New Testament.

So the mythical herojesus, god-king wonder-counselor (the being your boy Ehrmnan maintains that the HJ was not) is of the opinion that the laws it established when it was the old testament god, are wrong?

You worship inconsistent evil...

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yes, and graduated college also.

Patriot University?

 

[H'ethetheth]

Actually I believe those were Moses' laws of the Old Testament. Christ brought the New Testament.

http://whitedragonawa.wordpress.com...ual-laws-in-the-bible-gods-law-is-still-holy/

I'm amazed every time I see this argument being used as if it is somehow a solution to this conundrum.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Actually I believe those were Moses' laws of the Old Testament. Christ brought the New Testament.

ETA http://whitedragonawa.wordpress.com...ual-laws-in-the-bible-gods-law-is-still-holy/

So the creation story in the Old Testament can be ignored as well? Or are you cherry-picking?

 

[joobz]

Actually I believe those were Moses' laws of the Old Testament. Christ brought the New Testament.

ETA http://whitedragonawa.wordpress.com...ual-laws-in-the-bible-gods-law-is-still-holy/

So god got it wrong the first time, with rules that were immoral.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So god got it wrong the first time, with rules that were immoral.

That was just a reboot. Second, or third depending on how you count them. More plot "adjustments" than Eureka.

 

[Craig B]

No, apparently it is drowning someone because they turned out to be a disappointment.

Again, as a parent, do the same rules apply? That is, if my children disappoint me, should I kill them?

A strange thing about that. Noah was the best man, OK. But his wife was the best woman? And his family: his three sons and their wives - all these were more deserving of life than every other creature on earth?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A strange thing about that. Noah was the best man, OK. But his wife was the best woman? And his family: his three sons and their wives - all these were more deserving of life than every other creature on earth?

You want to see a church lady choke? Ask her who Noah's great-grandkids bred with.

 

[pakeha]

Actually I believe those were Moses' laws of the Old Testament. Christ brought the New Testament.

ETA http://whitedragonawa.wordpress.com...ual-laws-in-the-bible-gods-law-is-still-holy/

Are you saying Jesus condoned the death penalty?
The death penalty you mentioned in an earlier post?

 

[X]

Maybe God felt it was in the best interest of the world to start over. He might of realized there was no hope because of great amount of "free will" evil that existed at that time. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over.

Some might say, why didn't God see this coming before he created humanity. The answer is free will. In order to guarantee perfect free will, God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act.

This is the second time you've gone on the record as implying that it is preferable to kill people than to impose limitations and corrections on their behaviour. Also, it's not really "free" will if the "wrong" choice lands you in eternal torment, is it?
Where did you get such a twisted and evil morality, DOC?


============================

Two point five million years ago we are talking about Homo habilis, a user of stone tools and incapable of building a massive ship.

Neither old or young earth creationists believe the great flood was that long ago.

Really? Then why did you post the following:

From your link"

"A new model of the early Earth suggests that until around 2.5 billion years ago oceans covered almost the whole of the planet. Just 2% to 3% of the Earth’s surface would have been dry land, compared with 28% today...
...However, unlike in the movie, the oceans 2.5 billion years ago would have been devoid of fish, which had not yet evolved..."
___

This all correlates with the bible. First God created the earth. Then God was "over the surface of the waters" before he created the continents. Then he created sea life. Then land animals, and lastly humans.

And that's what Old Earth Creationists believe. But whether you're old earth or young earth, the order of events is the same. The bible is not a detailed science book, it deals mostly with spiritual matters and God's relation with humanity. But it seems God gave man a little info about creation, in a way his non-scientific mind could understand, probably in order to satisfy early man's curiosity, before moving to the more important spiritual matters.

Hilighting mine.
Why are you bringing in quotes that you don't believe? Either you were lying, or you are so desperate you are slinging everything at the wall hoping something stick to allow you to claim victory (proof by irrelevant fact assertion again).
Either way, it is horribly dishonest of you.
(the difference between your billion and Sideroxylon's million is a misread, and is rectified further up the thread).


============================


I noticed you replied to one of my posts. Selectively, and cherry-pickingly, but a reply nonetheless. How about replying to this rather more substantive post of mine:

The bible talks of a worldwide flood. Could marine fossils found 700 meters above sea level be evidence of that?

Interesting articles. Thanks for linking them.
It's unfortunate, however, that you chose to illustrate your disingenuous posting habits, dishonest quote mining and selective reading in this manner.
Don't know what I mean? Read on...

From the article: Catching a mermaid in Jbeil
By Lara Khouzami

"Lebanon's three main fish fossil sites, Hgula, Haqil (both in the mountains above Jbeil) and An Nammura are the only ones in the Middle East,"

http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/500/550/551/abisaad/

Do you know what else this article says?

"About 100 [million] years ago the region known as Lebanon was 200 [meters] below the surface of the Tethys Sea, a geological name for the sea between Eurasian and African plates during the later palaeozoic and mesozoic eras, when the fish thrived before becoming fossilised."​

From Brazil Weird News:

The location of the {shrimp fossil} appears strange for a marine animal ... 700 meters above sea level. But it is not a suprise for the scientists. In the same region were also found fossilized remains of a squid that belongs to the same period.

http://brazilweirdnews.blogspot.com/2011/02/peru-fossil-shrimp-from-cretaceous.html

Do you know what else this article says?

"[Chiclayo Paleontological Museum Director Honning Meyer] explains that in the place, in ancient Ages, a kind of salt lagoon was formed in there."​

===============================


You attempt to imply that these findings support the Noachian flood. The articles say no such thing and make no such suggestion. The fist article explains that the displaced fossils are due to tectonic action raising the land above sea level. The second article explains that the fossils come from a body of salt water that existed during the Cretaceous period (ending 65 million years ago).

That you would ask why these fossils are there, imply the cause was global flood, and intentionally excise the portions of the articles explaining the existing of these fossils is not a credit to your character!

Why do you lie, DOC?


ETA: Also, DOC, do you suppose Noah's flood was of saltwater or freshwater? Very few aquatic critters can survive in both. How does your flood explain the existence of both fresh and saltwater animals, concentrated in different areas?

 

[Slowvehicle]

That was just a reboot. Second, or third depending on how you count them. More plot "adjustments" than Eureka.

RetConning...

 

[Craig B]

Actually I believe those were Moses' laws of the Old Testament. Christ brought the New Testament.

In which Jesus says in Matthew 5:

17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.