Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

[Sideroxylon]

And then suggested that this was due to the biblical flood. Clearly that is not the case.

Of course, while you're at it, you might search the old noah's ark thread and learn how the ark as described in the bible turns to splinters the moment it would be put on a placid lake.
Rather than trying to rationalize it with science, which will never work, why not just go with 'god did it with magic'?

Even if key elements of the flood were done miraculously, the idea is still in contradiction with observed geology, geographic distributions of species and evidence of human settlement.

 

[Susheel]

Strawman, I never said the mountains were under water. I said the land that made up the mountains was at one time under water.

Yes...and this had nothing to do with a global flood. So what's your point?

 

[smartcooky]

This all correlates with the bible.

No it doesn't

The science says that the earth was entirely covered with water 2.5 BILLION years ago. There were no lifeforms higher than algae or bacteria.

The bible says that the earth was entirely covered with water 4300 years ago. The lifeforms on the planet were essentially the same as those which exist now.

The two are inconsistent with each other, and the geological evidence points to the former, not the latter. If there had been a global flood at the time the bible states, the geological evidence would stick out like a pair of canine gonads. The fact is, that there is NO geological evidence of a global flood at the time, but there is some limited evidence of several local inundations in the region of the Black Sea over the last 30,000 years, which brings me back to my earlier suggestion, that the biblical flood account is likely to be a conflation or aggregation of the accounts of multiple smaller events over a number of years.

The point by another poster that humans have lived primarily on flood plains for the last 12,000 years (probably because of the superior fertility of the soils) is well made, and his conclusion that this would lead to a higher than expected number of flood accounts in human history is probably the right one.

 

[DOC]

Let me understand this.

You are hoping to find evidence of a story where god kills nearly all living creatures, except those that fit on a single boat.

Maybe God felt it was in the best interest of the world to start over. He might of realized there was no hope because of great amount of "free will" evil that existed at that time. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over.

Some might say, why didn't God see this coming before he created humanity. The answer is free will. In order to guarantee perfect free will, God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act.

 

[devnull]

Maybe God felt it was in the best interest of the world to start over.

The answer is free will.

So he gifted humans with free will, and then killed everyone when he didnt like the result? What value then is free will?

Can I do the same thing with my children? Should I kill them if I dont like how they turn out?

 

[DOC]

Yeah, no light before there was a heaven and an earth. That makes a lot of scientific sense.

Actually the bible says in Revelation there will be no need for the sun to light the world.

And remember according to science there was a time when heaven and earth (the universe) did not exist. Something created it.

 

[Craig B]

Maybe God felt it was in the best interest of the world to start over. He might of realized there was no hope because of great amount of "free will" evil that existed at that time. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over.

Some might say, why didn't God see this coming before he created humanity. The answer is free will. In order to guarantee perfect free will, God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act.

Let's analyse his weird collection of propositions.

1. great amount of "free will" evil. So God's greatest gift is the only or major source of evil.
2. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over. The "long term" interest is a temporal term by definition.
3. God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act. So an omnipotent being can use his omnipotence for the purpose of annihilating his own omniscience. That's an odd idea, to say the least.

 

[DOC]

So he gifted humans with free will, and then killed everyone when he didnt like the result? What value then is free will?

Maybe God doesn't want evil people corrupting the universe and ruining it for everyone else all throughout eternity. So he made a special place for those people who choose to continually disobey his simple laws.

The bible says God wishes none should perish, but he chose to make laws to prevent chaos just like humanity today makes laws (some having the death penalty) to prevent chaos.

 

[Craig B]

Maybe God doesn't want evil people corrupting the universe and ruining it for everyone else all throughout eternity. So he made a special place for those people who choose to continually disobey his simple laws.

Where in the story of the Flood does Genesis tell us about this "place"?

The bible says God wishes none should perish

So why does anyone perish, then? God is omnipotent, in case you've forgotten.

but he chose to make laws to prevent chaos just like humanity today makes laws (some having the death penalty) to prevent chaos.

How many of these laws provide for eternal torture in a "special place"?

 

[Mojo]

From your link"

"A new model of the early Earth suggests that until around 2.5 billion years ago oceans covered almost the whole of the planet. Just 2% to 3% of the Earth’s surface would have been dry land, compared with 28% today...
...However, unlike in the movie, the oceans 2.5 billion years ago would have been devoid of fish, which had not yet evolved..."
___

This all correlates with the bible. First God created the earth. Then God was "over the surface of the waters" before he created the continents. Then he created sea life. Then land animals, and lastly humans.

And that's what Old Earth Creationists believe. But whether you're old earth or young earth, the order of events is the same. The bible is not a detailed science book, it deals mostly with spiritual matters and God's relation with humanity. But it seems God gave man a little info about creation, in a way his non-scientific mind could understand, probably in order to satisfy early man's curiosity, before moving to the more important spiritual matters.

Two point five million years ago we are talking about Homo habilis, a user of stone tools and incapable of building a massive ship.

2.5 billion years ago we're talking about bacteria building a massive ship.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Quite nostalgic this. It brings back memories of Usenet.
What next Ed Conrad and 'Man as old as Coal' ?

 

[Sideroxylon]

2.5 billion years ago we're talking about bacteria building a massive ship.

misread.

 

[devnull]

Quite nostalgic this. It brings back memories of Usenet.
What next Ed Conrad and 'Man as old as Coal' ?

Yeh, next thing you know someone will be talking about MI5 mind control torture.

 

[joobz]

Maybe God felt it was in the best interest of the world to start over. He might of realized there was no hope because of great amount of "free will" evil that existed at that time. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over.

Some might say, why didn't God see this coming before he created humanity. The answer is free will. In order to guarantee perfect free will, God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act.

That's the same god, whose book condones slavery, right?
Sorry, but you worship evil.

 

[joobz]

Maybe God doesn't want evil people corrupting the universe and ruining it for everyone else all throughout eternity. So he made a special place for those people who choose to continually disobey his simple laws.

The bible says God wishes none should perish, but he chose to make laws to prevent chaos just like humanity today makes laws (some having the death penalty) to prevent chaos.

So all those babies who would have been killed in the flood were evil beyond repair?
All the animals besides the those on the boat were evil beyond repair?
And yet, in his own rule book, it explains that it is morally good to kill a woman who has sex before marriage. That it is good to kill the first born of Egypt for something the pharaoh was doing, that it is good to practice slavery.

Disgusting.

 

[AdMan]

Maybe God felt it was in the best interest of the world to start over. He might of realized there was no hope because of great amount of "free will" evil that existed at that time. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over.

Some might say, why didn't God see this coming before he created humanity. The answer is free will. In order to guarantee perfect free will, God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act.

So God made his creations, and gave them free will. For some reason, he chose not to know how his creations would act.

They sinned and displeased him. He decides to kill them all. All this because he made them imperfect. He could have foreseen their imperfection, but decided not to. He'd rather their destruction come as a surprise. Is that what you're arguing?

Such a god deserves to be abhorred, not revered.

 

[smartcooky]

Let's analyse his weird collection of propositions.

1. great amount of "free will" evil. So God's greatest gift is the only or major source of evil.
2. And because God thinks in eternal terms whereas you think in temporal terms, he might have done what was in the best long term interest of the world by starting over. The "long term" interest is a temporal term by definition.
3. God could have chosen not to know how humanity would act. So an omnipotent being can use his omnipotence for the purpose of annihilating his own omniscience. That's an odd idea, to say the least.

This sounds like something out of a Douglas Adams book!!

 

[DOC]

great amount of "free will" evil. So God's greatest gift is the only or major source of evil.

If we didn't have free will, we would basically be robots. God could have programmed us to obey all rules and to love him. But true love is not programmed love.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

So, we aren't forced to obey his every command, but if we don't obey his every command he'll kill us all?

That...that sounds like force to me.

 

[devnull]

But true love is not programmed love.

No, apparently it is drowning someone because they turned out to be a disappointment.

Again, as a parent, do the same rules apply? That is, if my children disappoint me, should I kill them?