Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[johnny karate]

Read carefully: City of Miami Gardens

in·ner cit·y
Noun
The area near the center of a city, esp. when associated with social and economic problems.

It's weird that you keep solely focusing on the word "city" as if "inner city" and "city" are somehow synonymous.

Did you notice there are other words in the definition of "inner city"?

Where within the city of Miami Gardens did Martin live? Was it near the "inner" portion?

Are you asking me? Because it's not my claim.

Check with TheL8Elvis. He seems to be the expert on what it means to be "inner city". And from what I can tell, it's anyone from a city with a population larger that 100,000

Miami Gardens is a city, with its own inner-city area (based on the required geographical qualification that you have presented). The part(s) highlighted in yellow distinguishes it as a city separate from the city of Miami.

Is Martin from the "inner-city area" of Miami Gardens?

I don't think the RATL could be considered "an older part of a city, densely populated and usually deteriorating, inhabited mainly by poor, often minority, groups".

Now that the full and accurate definition of "inner city" has been used in defense of Zimmerman (convenient, that), how much of it applies to Martin? Other than the "city" part?

ETA: This is a fairly fruitless debate; what value is there if some sort of agreement could come of it?

An honest person would admit an erroneous and disparaging remark with racial undertones was made about Martin, apologize, and move on.

But instead we're immersed in a semantic debate that seems to be centered around the ridiculous contention that "city" and "inner city" are synonymous terms.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It's weird that you keep solely focusing on the word "city" as if "inner city" and "city" are somehow synonymous.

Did you notice there are other words in the definition of "inner city"?

Yes. Which ones do you think don't apply ?

An honest person would admit an erroneous and disparaging remark with racial undertones was made about Martin, apologize, and move on.

The problem is, that's not how it was presented.

But instead we're immersed in a semantic debate that seems to be centered around the ridiculous contention that "city" and "inner city" are synonymous terms.

I'm just waiting for Unabogie to answer my questions, just like I answered his...

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The city of Sanford has social and economic problems. Is George from the inner city?

Can you answer my questions so we can move on ? Unless the goal is to get the thread moderated by baiting me by implying I am a racist and stirring everyone up by turning everything into a race issue ? Because if that's the goal, it seems to be working.

 

[lionking]

Can you answer my questions so we can move on ? Unless the goal is to get the thread moderated by baiting me by implying I am a racist and stirring everyone up by turning everything into a race issue ? Because if that's the goal, it seems to be working.

AlBell played the race card rather solidly not so long ago.

 

[johnny karate]

Did you notice there are other words in the definition of "inner city"?

Yes. Which ones do you think don't apply ?

Let's start with the bolded:

The usually older, central part of a city, especially when characterized by crowded neighborhoods in which low-income, often minority groups predominate.

The problem is, that's not how it was presented.

Sure it was.

The entire statement was clearly meant to be disparaging, and again, using a negative stereotype to inaccurately describe a black person most certainly has racist undertones. To say the least.

I'm very much willing to believe you weren't intending to be racist, expect for the fact that you have now decided to double-down on your original statement rather than simply acknowledging your error and moving on.

 

[phonebook]

I'm very much willing to believe you weren't intending to be racist, expect for the fact that you have now decided to double-down on your original statement rather than simply acknowledging your error and moving on.

I guess you won't be able to move on until he does that?

 

[johnny karate]

I guess you won't be able to move on until he does that?

That's kind of how it works around here. People are expected to substantiate their assertions, and are often pressed until they do. Demonstrably untrue statements are not given a free pass.

 

[Unabogie]

I'm perfectly willing to move on. Trayvon Martin was not an "inner city youth" and that characterization was inaccurate and disparaging.

I'd much rather hear TheL8Elvis's thoughts on how that video I posted, combined with the NEN call and George's walkthrough, clearly shows that the incident George described as the victim running behind the row houses, returning, and then circling his car with his hand in his waistband, could not have physically happened. George made that up, and that's a material lie.

Can he chime in on this?

 

[Rare Truth]

I'm perfectly willing to move on. Trayvon Martin was not an "inner city youth" and that characterization was inaccurate and disparaging.

I'd much rather hear TheL8Elvis's thoughts on how that video I posted, combined with the NEN call and George's walkthrough, clearly shows that the incident George described as the victim running behind the row houses, returning, and then circling his car with his hand in his waistband, could not have physically happened. George made that up, and that's a material lie.

Can he chime in on this?

All that is going to be very neatly presented at trial. The prosecution, I foresee will be tying it all together in a smackdown of such epic proportions, even Zimmerman defenders will be holding their heads gingerly, cause they won't know what hit 'em.

"The evidence is strong."

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Let's start with the bolded:

Sure it was.

The entire statement was clearly meant to be disparaging, and again, using a negative stereotype to inaccurately describe a black person most certainly has racist undertones. To say the least.

I'm very much willing to believe you weren't intending to be racist, expect for the fact that you have now decided to double-down on your original statement rather than simply acknowledging your error and moving on.

I can concede that it was a poor choice of words. It wasn't, however, intended to be disparaging, but a contrast in the context which I was discussing, which is who uses the word "homie", as Unabogie apparently expected me to know all about how it wasn't in vogue.

I doubled down because I'm irritated with the not-so thinly veiled name calling.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

All that is going to be very neatly presented at trial. The prosecution, I foresee will be tying it all together in a smackdown of such epic proportions, even Zimmerman defenders will be holding their heads gingerly, cause they won't know what hit 'em.

"The evidence is strong."

Yes, just like the epic smack down MOM got when he requested a new judge.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I'm perfectly willing to move on. Trayvon Martin was not an "inner city youth" and that characterization was inaccurate and disparaging.

Yup, let's move on, as soon you answer my questions.

Tell me about all the black witnesses I don't believe ?

Tell me where I said I believed witness 8 was an impostor ?

Tell me how not living with either of your divorced parents is perfectly normal ?

 

[Rare Truth]

Yes, just like the epic smack down MOM got when he requested a new judge.

Oh yeah. How'd that work out for them?

Heh. Judge Nelson is even tougher than Lester. lol.

Dumb move getting rid of the judge that Criminal Defense Lawyers themselves rated as one of the best.

Awww. Now poor Zimmy is stuck with the No Nonsense Nelson.

 

[Unabogie]

All that is going to be very neatly presented at trial. The prosecution, I foresee will be tying it all together in a smackdown of such epic proportions, even Zimmerman defenders will be holding their heads gingerly, cause they won't know what hit 'em.

"The evidence is strong."

Yeah, I think you're right. But look at what they're reduced to arguing to make that work? You have the following facts:

1. George said on his walkthrough that he called NEN, then pulled in to the clubhouse to speak.
2. He only left the clubhouse after the dispatcher asked him "which way is he running?"
3. He claimed that when Trayvon went behind the row houses, he strangely doubled back and came around his car in a menacing way.

So we can put those together with the NEN call and check.

1. When he starts the call, he is at the clubhouse and describes Trayvon as being at Taaffe's house, and walking towards him.
2. He describes him as walking slowly.

So we can time how long it takes to walk from Taaffe's house to the clubhouse, and judging by that video, it's clear he would have only made it to the clubhouse by the time George is getting out of his car.

This means it's physically impossible for Trayvon to have made it all the way to the row houses and doubled back, which makes that a lie.

The only way to fix this is to pretend that George wasn't really parked where he said he was, and wasn't speaking when he said he was, and chalk it all up to hazy memory.

I don't think that's going to work.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Oh yeah. How'd that work out for them?

Heh. Judge Nelson is even tougher than Lester. lol.

Dumb move getting rid of the judge that Criminal Defense Lawyers themselves rated as one of the best.

Awww. Now poor Zimmy is stuck with the No Nonsense Nelson.

What specifically demonstrates she is "tougher" than Lester ?

 

[Unabogie]

Tell me how not living with either of your divorced parents is perfectly normal ?

You can move on or not. I don't care.

On who Trayvon lived with, I can only find this.

Trayvon Benjamin Martin (February 5, 1995 – February 26, 2012) was the son of Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, who were divorced in 1999. He was a junior at Dr. Michael Krop High School and lived with his mother and older brother in Miami Gardens, Florida.[32][33][34]

Who do you think he lived with?

ETA: From one of those articles:

Trayvon’s parents — his mother is a Miami-Dade government employee and his dad is a truck driver — divorced in 1999 but lived near each other in Miami Gardens, working hard to raise Trayvon with family values and lift him above the statistics.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...yvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html#storylink=cpy

Hmm, that seems quite functional. They divorced but stayed close to raise the kids. She had a civil service job and he drives a truck. Solid middle class. Not inner city. And I see nothing about him not living with them.

They tried to make sure he was exposed to experiences beyond South Florida: skiing, snowboarding and riding snowmobiles. Mother and son went horseback riding for her birthday, 13 days after his.

Weird. Seems normal to me.

 

[Cylinder]

When he starts the call, he is at the clubhouse and describes Trayvon as being at Taaffe's house, and walking towards him.

That's your assumption. Nowhere does Zimmerman claim that Martin was at Taffe's address when he connected to NEN.

 

[Unabogie]

That's your assumption. Nowhere does Zimmerman claim that Martin was at Taffe's address when he connected to NEN.

Yep. He clearly does. He is driving past him, spots him, and dials. He gets through right away, because he pulls into the clubhouse when he's connected. At that point, he starts describing his victim as coming towards him. And then he says "he's coming to check me out". While he's saying that he's still at the clubhouse, because he says that "which way was he running" was what made him pull out.

Wow, you are going to be reeling when this trial starts. You're in complete denial. He's toast. He just made stuff up and it's going to be ugly watching him get flayed on the stand.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You can move on or not. I don't care.

I care. Because as someone once said:

That's kind of how it works around here. People are expected to substantiate their assertions, and are often pressed until they do. Demonstrably untrue statements are not given a free pass.

And you made quite a few assertions you have yet to substantiate.

Tell me about all the black witnesses I don't believe ?

Tell me where I said I believed witness 8 was an impostor ?

Tell me how not living with either of your divorced parents is perfectly normal ?

On who Trayvon lived with, I can only find this.

Trayvon Benjamin Martin (February 5, 1995 – February 26, 2012) was the son of Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, who were divorced in 1999. He was a junior at Dr. Michael Krop High School and lived with his mother and older brother in Miami Gardens, Florida.[32][33][34]

Who do you think he lived with?

He was living with Uncle Stephen and aunt Miriam Martin, according to Tracy Martins sister.

http://www.power92chicago.com/pages/11402605.php?archive=1&pid=227820

Start at 1:55 minutes in, you hear Tracy Martins sister say TM was living with his Uncle. Tracy was living with his sister.

 

[Cylinder]

Yep. He clearly does. He is driving past him, spots him, and dials. He gets through right away, because he pulls into the clubhouse when he's connected. At that point, he starts describing his victim as coming towards him. And then he says "he's coming to check me out". While he's saying that he's still at the clubhouse, because he says that "which way was he running" was what made him pull out.

Wow, you are going to be reeling when this trial starts. You're in complete denial. He's toast. He just made stuff up and it's going to be ugly watching him get flayed on the stand.

Don't paraphrase. Don't handwave. Don't do the cheerleader schtick. Quote it.