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Proof of Life After Death!!

First I never intended to "demonstrate" how personal experience is a way of knowing. Bu it is easy. Stick your finger in the power outlet. You will "know" by personal experience you should not do that.

Are you deliberately conflating a term you have been using?

How do you know great philosophers or scientists "did a lot of thinking"?
They just produced their ideas. Were they a product of a "lot" of thinking? I think genius is the ability of focusing great ideas with little thinking and a lot of intuition.
If you beleive it was "a lot of thinking" then.... prove it!

Intuition is only part of it. The evidence that thought was involved is in the numerous volumes of books that contain evidence and reasoned argument that we can follow today. Intuition is a valid starting point but no more than that.
 
I am sorry, I don't see it that way.

That is just something you read somewhere, or something.


Your actions show that you believe in a God of love, but that you yourself think people are stupid and blind.

Incredibly your told not to judge, as the judgement you judge, is actually a mirror of you.

Aren't most of the things said here being read somewhere?
On the contrary, I am suggesting putting ALL ideas in a basket for a while, and deal with your Higher Self.

Remove the blaming glass from your eye.

Did I say I believe in something? I just said you have the means to KNOW, if you really want to.

If I would think people here is stupid, I would be the greatest stupid of all, "wasting my time here" as I been told MANY times.

No, man, we are just exchanging ideas. Don't let the lower self get in the way!
 
Are you deliberately conflating a term you have been using?



Intuition is only part of it. The evidence that thought was involved is in the numerous volumes of books that contain evidence and reasoned argument that we can follow today. Intuition is a valid starting point but no more than that.

Books have to be fat. If not publishers don't like them!

Too many words to say something means poor thinking or lack of communication abilities.

I love the concept on "evidence of evidence"!

Is there any "evidence of evidence about evidence"?
 
When my first child was small, I thought I saw my someone bending over the crib in our bedroom one night. I reached over to the crib and realised the baby wasn't breathing, so grabbed him, started CPR while my husband rang 999. The baby was fine, he's now almost 26. When I described the figure to my husband, he said it sounded like his deceased grandfather, who I had never seen but I have since seen a photo of him.

Sensible explanation: I was befuddled with sleep and misinterpreted shadows in the dimly lit room with the moon shining through the curtains, thinking I saw a person bending over. I woke up because subconsciously I'd stopped hearing the baby breathe (he was very snuffly at that time). The experience of the baby not breathing was traumatic and frightening, and and in the telling and retelling, the shadow-figure became more real in my memory than it was at the actual moment, and coupled with my ex telling me it was his grandfather and then seeing a photo, I have 'made' the shadow-figure into his grandfather in my memory.

Memory is like that, it is plastic and malleable and the more you think about something or tell the story, the more chances there are of later interpretations being incorporated into the story.

An afterlife doesn't attract me; if I could see my children but not interact with them, I'd find it terribly frustrating and upsetting - not being able to comfort them in their grief, not being able to advise them, guide them or help them.

If the afterlife involved being some completely different plane of existence with people who've already died, well, what about the ones I didn't get along with? An eternity of my mother telling me all over again how she never loved or wanted me? No thanks, it was horrible enough first time round.
Agatha, I'm really sorry your Mom was like that.
 
You don't see the conundrum here?

It's like you're just parroting things you've been told, or read.

Yes I do see the funny conundrum!. Allow me to correct my poor English:

Genius is the ability of focusing great ideas with little thinking and a lot of intuition.

Isn't it most of you read here is "just parroting things you've been told, or read"?

Forgive my profanity. I like more to do my own thinking and inner exploration than "following" writings...
 
@Agatha

An afterlife doesn't attract me; if I could see my children but not interact with them, I'd find it terribly frustrating and upsetting - not being able to comfort them in their grief, not being able to advise them, guide them or help them.

If the afterlife involved being some completely different plane of existence with people who've already died, well, what about the ones I didn't get along with? An eternity of my mother telling me all over again how she never loved or wanted me? No thanks, it was horrible enough first time round.

I agree with you!

We had enough of our "relationships" on earth living.

LAD is something else. but don't worry.

Eventually we will all understand it
 
Books have to be fat. If not publishers don't like them!

Too many words to say something means poor thinking or lack of communication abilities.

I love the concept on "evidence of evidence"!

Is there any "evidence of evidence about evidence"?

You understood me yet you continue to show that you are not interested in an honest discussion.

Belief in life after death is strictly a faith position. Your rambling and distraction is a façade for who?
 
You understood me yet you continue to show that you are not interested in an honest discussion.

Belief in life after death is strictly a faith position. Your rambling and distraction is a façade for who?

Love is also a matter of Faith.

Skeptics have Faith in Science. Scientists have Faith in their experiments (but not on their assistants. lol).

Strongly denying faith is to have faith in no faith!

Plank had Faith in his constant.

Guys here have faith I am wrong and everybody else is right....

Faith, faith, faith.... evidence is faith on facts!
 
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Love is also a matter of Faith.

Skeptics have Faith in Science. Scientists have Faith in their experiments (but not on their assistants. lol).

Strongly denying faith is to have faith in no faith!

Plank had Faith in his constant.

Guys here have faith I am wrong and everybody else is right....

Faith, faith, faith.... evidence is faith on facts!

Waffle.
 
There is a noticeable lack of Honesty when a person claims having "no fear for death". Fear of dying is innate. It is part of the survival instinct. Skeptics are really pretending to be super-humans, beyond natural instincts.
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There were millions of years before you were born when you were not alive.

Do those years scare you?

Why should the millions of years that will take place after your time scare you any more?

As far as fear of dying (rather than death), I will be a little scared if faced with the prospect of a painful death, but the afterlife fantasy doesn't help with that at all. It's all about this irrational notion that you can somehow live forever. Sorry, it's not going to happen.

Even if I was afraid of death, it wouldn't tempt me to believe in an afterlife fantasy, we are rational creatures, not restricted to our instincts.
 
Agatha, I'm really sorry your Mom was like that.
Thank you. It was all a long time ago now, and doesn't hurt so much now I have my own children and can see what she was missing out on.

I agree with you!

We had enough of our "relationships" on earth living.

LAD is something else. but don't worry.

Eventually we will all understand it.

I recognise that you believe this, and perhaps you find that belief comforting. The thing is, I don't believe there will be an afterlife, and I'm OK with that. If I did believe there was an afterlife, I would not be happy or comforted by that. On the contrary, I would find the idea quite repellent.

I will concentrate on having the best life I can, and on caring for the people I love, and leaving the world a better place than I found it. The only sort of immortality I want is to live on in people's memories, and for them to remember me with love.

Faith by definition is belief without evidence, once there is evidence it is no longer faith but knowledge.
 
The personal experience in technology and science matters is COMMUNICABLE. I have several times explained why the inner perceptions of the Soul cannot, and if you do, you end up creating a religion and further confusing both skeptics and non skeptics.

If you say they're not COMMUNICABLE then why are you trying to communicate them, aren't you just asking for frustration?
 
Fair enough. But let's just pretend that in your dream you asked your Dad to prove to you he really was visiting you. Then let's pretend he said, "Remember the pants. You'll know it was me because of the pants. Remember the pants." You wake up the next morning remembering his message as clear as day, but think the message is ridiculous (unless of course your Dad actually HAD some pants! Sorry Meg, couldn't resist). Anyway, then your Mom tells you she read an article entitled "The Pants" and it was a story about a dying father and the story reminded her of your Dad. It reminded her so much of your Dad that she cried while reading it and saved it especially for you to read.
If that had happened to you, tsig, would it sway you?

I hilited the problem with your argument.

I order to make my post confirm to your belief you add facts then ask me to reach a conclusion on those added facts. Do you think this is an honest approach?
 
Pixel42 and other folks misunderstood my opinion on moral aspects of skepticism.

I did not say explicitly "skepticism is immoral" in all aspects.
I sustain the intrusion of skepticism in spiritual, religious and mystical human activities is not only prone to spread immorality but also a detour from the basic skeptic foundation.

Skepticism in scientific and technological work is vital. Those are the fields were skepticism contributes to reach earthly knowledge and understanding. Invasion of personal fields, like idealism, spiritualism, love, belief in things beyond proof, emotion and other internal activities is out of center.

From reading some of the thousands of posts I realize skeptics invariable claim for evidence and proof. It is logical to conclude evidence and proof possibilities are fundamental for skeptic thinking.
In other words: The realms of thought, where proof and evidence cannot be obtained and where the same skeptic thinkers cannot define the nature, characteristics and quality of the proof, are not suitable for skeptic discussion, because it is impossible to reach a state of proof or denial.

This means skeptic thinking applied to criticize beliefs in things beyond proof cause distorted perceptions and logical confusion.

One clear example of such confusion is:

Invariably, skeptics express ideas of God as a "punishing entity, mean, and unjust, which demands of humans a certain attitude or otherwise they will be punished with infernal treatment".

Even worse, skeptics constantly sustain, all societies with a religious foundation behave morally because such "fear of punishment".

This also connects with the topic in this thread: Life after Death.

It is true many religions sustain thoughts like those, mainly radical religions, but such creeds do not have a thing to do with the Reality of a Superior Consciousness and the progression of Consciousness through totally different realms and not only within this earthly realm.

True Christian thinking (I am NOT saying religion), as an example, is NOT based in promoting fear to an angry god or a horny devil. It is based on the spread of Love, Solidarity, Unselfishness, Compassion, Truth, Honesty, Sincerity, Devotion and Dedication.

Truly spiritually advanced persons can accomplish those goals without any spiritual guidance. Skeptics can enjoy those qualities as well, as long as they do not destroy them by intruding into others right-to-use their own beliefs to accomplish the same.

The immorality surges when the internal convictions are systematically attacked and ridiculed and if succeeding, destroying the seed of moral behavior. There it is when publicly spread skeptic notions seriously affect large sectors of the social body.

Skeptics also fail to understand there is no need to profess a religion to understand God, Life after Death and Spiritual values.

We could say, those skeptic thinkers who behave with total morality, exhibiting the attributes mentioned above, are actually understanding God, no matter they have replaced his name for "Inner Conviction" or a "native moral state".

Why then skeptics insist in spreading their points of view, using their slogan of "Freeing people from superstition, slavery and fear of death"?

There is a noticeable lack of Honesty when a person claims having "no fear for death". Fear of dying is innate. It is part of the survival instinct. Skeptics are really pretending to be super-humans, beyond natural instincts.

Skeptics also fail to perceive the obvious Order in the Universe. It is necessary to think, demand and accept total disorder to be able to deny a Superior Mind, because there can be no order without intelligence.

Skeptics cannot envision an ulterior purpose for human consciousness except to "enjoy your little time on earth, before you are totally annihilated".

Like getting on a plane, to fly for 10 hours thinking there is no destiny and the plane will land nowhere. (Which you actually don't know until you get there)

Life After Death, LAD, is the logical consequence of a World, whose primordial object is the creation, evolution towards expansion, and emancipation of Consciousness.

If skeptics "love" to thrive in a meaningless world, where nothing has a reason, where there is no ulterior purpose, where there is no order, and where there is an inevitable end.... Be my guests.

But intruding in others mental state, with the purpose of bringing the person down to such an arid state is immoral.

Serious question: Do you think anyone on this forum is buying this nonsense?
 
I hilited the problem with your argument.

I order to make my post confirm to your belief you add facts then ask me to reach a conclusion on those added facts. Do you think this is an honest approach?
Just trying to get you to relate to my story on a personal level. Curious, was your dream very vivid?
Did it seem like your Dad really was there?
 
Just trying to get you to relate to my story on a personal level. Curious, was your dream very vivid?
Did it seem like your Dad really was there?
I suspect the answer is "yes," but I wonder how it has relevance. I occasionally have very vivid dreams of flying in which it seems like I really am flying; I also (and unfortunately less frequently) have very vivid dreams of intimiate relationships with certain famous sexy people. Both types of dreams have made me wish momentarily that I really could fly and really did have those relations, but neither was sufficient to convince me of it.
 
Such as?

I'll add in my paranormal but really not story; Awhile before my father passed as a gag gift we got him a large electronic button toy(You press it and it says various funny things) he got a real kick out of it. Fast forward for the 1st week after his passing a few times after the button toy kept going off with no one pushing it.

The real world explanation? Upon examining the toy button I discovered the mechanism that makes it go off was extremely sensitive and require very little vibration to make it go off.
OK, but did the toy also have a habit of turning on by itself (due to it being highly sensitive) before your Dad died? Also, did the toy keep turning on by itself long after your Dad died? Or did it only happen right around the time he died? Because if that last statement is true, then the obvious explanation would be that it was all just a c...c...c..what's that "c" word I'm thinkin' of ? Coinkydink, perhaps?
 
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OK, but did the toy also have a habit of turning on by itself (due to it being highly sensitive) before your Dad died? Also, did the toy keep turning on by itself long after your Dad died? Or did it only happen right around the time he died? Because if that last statement is true, then the obvious explanation would be that it was just a c...c...c..what's that "c" word I'm thinkin' of ? Coinkydink, perhaps?
Which leads back to a question we keep asking:

What criteria, specifically, do you use to distinguish between a coincidence and something paranormal?
 

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