Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[phonebook]

Does this work?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=868&pictureid=7586[/qimg]

It works, but the resolution is quite low. Didn't you say earlier that there was a way to enlarge it?

Nice work, btw.

 

[WildCat]

Gladly:

Hearsay exceptions; availability of declarant immaterial





http://i.imgur.com/F0v2YaA.png

So right there on the diagnosis chart/list, when she diagnosed him with "Nasal bones, closed fracture", she will need to clarify what she meant by that?





He didn't have only swelling, he also had black eyes, both "typical of this injury". And again, he was diagnosed, by a medical professional, with a broken nose. It wasn't him looking in the mirror, seeing his nose was swollen and concluding that it was broken.

Also from your Link:





His nose wasn't crooked, because he had no "septal deviation". If there is no deviation, there is no need for straightening.

Upthread johnny karate claimed you had to be a medical expert and conduct tests to determine if the red stuff coming out of a wound was blood.

Just so you know the mentality of what I like to call "Trayvon Truthers".

 

[johnny karate]

Upthread johnny karate claimed you had to be a medical expert and conduct tests to determine if the red stuff coming out of a wound was blood.

No, I didn't.

But to your point, Duanne Allman once had a wound that bled red Kool-Aid, so sometimes it isn't blood.

 

[Dan O.]

It works, but the resolution is quite low. Didn't you say earlier that there was a way to enlarge it?

Nice work, btw.

Maybe they will work better here: https://sites.google.com/site/trayvonmartinwiki/zimmerman-nen-call

 

[This is The End]

Just so you know the mentality of what I like to call "Trayvon Truthers".

I've asked you repeatedly to explain this. Are you going to??

In 911, the people who disagree with the State are called truthers.

In the Trayvon Martin case you are calling the people who AGREE with the State truthers.

That makes sense to you?? You are literally calling the State truthers.

911 is one of the most evidenced cases in the history of the universe. People who disagree with the conclusion that evidence points to are called truthers.

In Trayvon Martin, we have NO solid evidence yet telling us whether or not Z really was in a valid self defense situation. People who decide to agree with the State pre-trial are being called truthers by you.

That makes sense to you?

 

[KatieG]

A little bit of too late self awareness from RJZ, jr.

George Zimmerman's brother says Twitter rant a "mistake"

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92R02M20130328?irpc=932

 

[Cylinder]

A minor correction regarding Zimmerman's medical records. which is neccessarily long and likely of very little interest to meme peddlers:

Those records themselves wouldn't be admissible as hearsay under §90.803(4), which states:

STATEMENTS FOR PURPOSES OF MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS OR TREATMENT.—Statements made for purposes of medical diagnosis or treatment by a person seeking the diagnosis or treatment, or made by an individual who has knowledge of the facts and is legally responsible for the person who is unable to communicate the facts, which statements describe medical history, past or present symptoms, pain, or sensations, or the inceptions or general character of the cause or external source thereof, insofar as reasonably pertinent to diagnosis or treatment.

Emphasis added. To simplfy, these are "statements made...by a person seeking the diagnosis or treatment...which...describe medical history, past or present symptoms, pain, or sensations, ...or general character of the cause or external source thereof...

Since the diagnosis isn't a statement made by "a person seeking diagnosis", §90.803(4) wouldn't apply.

However, §90.803(6)(a) states:

A memorandum, report, record, or data compilation, in any form, of acts, events, conditions, opinion, or diagnosis, made at or near the time by, or from information transmitted by, a person with knowledge, if kept in the course of a regularly conducted business activity and if it was the regular practice of that business activity to make such memorandum, report, record, or data compilation, all as shown by the testimony of the custodian or other qualified witness, or as shown by a certification or declaration that complies with paragraph (c) and s. 90.902(11), unless the sources of information or other circumstances show lack of trustworthiness. The term “business” as used in this paragraph includes a business, institution, association, profession, occupation, and calling of every kind, whether or not conducted for profit.

That's a bit of information, so we can examine its components...

A memorandum, report, record, or data compilation, in any form,...

The diagnosis is contained in a medical report.

...of acts, events, conditions, opinion, or diagnosis,...

The medical report contains a diagnosis and medical opinions.

...made at or near the time by, or from information transmitted by, a person with knowledge,...

The report was compiled the day after the injury by the professional who examined Zimmerman.

...if kept in the course of a regularly conducted business activity...

The report was made in response to a normal medical evaluation.

...and if it was the regular practice of that business activity to make such memorandum, report, record, or data compilation...

Issuing a medical report in response to an assessment is regular practice.

...all as shown by the testimony of the custodian or other qualified witness, or as shown by a certification or declaration that complies with paragraph (c) and s. 90.902(11), unless the sources of information or other circumstances show lack of trustworthiness.

The custodial affidavit was tendered both during Zimmerman's bond hearing and in response to the state's motion of production for Zimmerman's medical records.

So we seem to start out with those records qualified as a hearsay exception. Some other qualifiers under this chapter:

§90.803(6)(b) states:

Evidence in the form of an opinion or diagnosis is inadmissible under paragraph (a) unless such opinion or diagnosis would be admissible under ss. 90.701-90.705 if the person whose opinion is recorded were to testify to the opinion directly.

So we have to find an applicable catagory of testimony from one of the prescribed statutes.

90.702 Testimony by experts.—If scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will assist the trier of fact in understanding the evidence or in determining a fact in issue, a witness qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education may testify about it in the form of an opinion; however, the opinion is admissible only if it can be applied to evidence at trial.

One of the key facts at issue is the nature of Zimmerman's injury, how they would have been perceived and how they could have occurred.

The last qualifier, found in §90.803(6)(c) requires serving notice:

A party intending to offer evidence under paragraph (a) by means of a certification or declaration shall serve reasonable written notice of that intention upon every other party and shall make the evidence available for inspection sufficiently in advance of its offer in evidence to provide to any other party a fair opportunity to challenge the admissibility of the evidence. If the evidence is maintained in a foreign country, the party intending to offer the evidence must provide written notice of that intention at the arraignment or as soon after the arraignment as is practicable or, in a civil case, 60 days before the trial. A motion opposing the admissibility of such evidence must be made by the opposing party and determined by the court before trial. A party’s failure to file such a motion before trial constitutes a waiver of objection to the evidence, but the court for good cause shown may grant relief from the waiver.

Since the medical records aren't held in a foriegn country (no Florida jokes here, please) then this requirement has yet to arrive.

Once the diagnosis is in evidence, it's not really Zimmerman's job to rebut or impeach it.

That's a bit of information, so if anyone has a discussion point, try to cut out that section of the quote. Hitting quote and adding your zinger doesn;t really rate.

As I'll show, this is actually just an academic exersize - Zimmerman's PA and her findings are already on the witness list and have been for some time.

 

[This is The End]

Zimmerman's PA and her findings

...or lack thereof.

 

[12AX7]

Upthread johnny karate claimed you had to be a medical expert and conduct tests to determine if the red stuff coming out of a wound was blood.

And at the end of the day, your hero shot and killed an unarmed teenager for what looks like no reason (except George's "savage, life-threatening beatdown"). Keep the distractions going.

Just so you know the mentality of what I like to call "Trayvon Truthers".

Says one of George's head cheerleaders.

 

[Rare Truth]

GZ went to the doctor to get a return to work note. Recall, he went to work first.

Did the doctor issue that return to work note?

 

[Cylinder]

Regarding the Next Hearing Date in the Zimmerman Case

On Monday, March 25, the Court canceled the hearing previously scheduled on April 2. The Court did not consult with the defense before canceling the hearing. As there are only 74 days until trial, and as there are Motions before the Court, we hope to appear before the Judge for pending matters before the next hearing currently scheduled for April 30.

 

[Dan O.]

Maybe this will give O'Mara more time to prepare his case instead of spending all his time crying in front of the judge.

 

[Cylinder]

Maybe this will give O'Mara more time to prepare his case instead of spending all his time crying in front of the judge.

Is that a civil rights slogan or something? I'm confused.

 

[Cylinder]

Nelson denies motion to depose Crump

A judge has denied a motion from the defense team for George Zimmerman to question Trayvon Martin's family attorney Benjamin Crump about the young woman believed to be Trayvon's girlfriend.


We’re told Judge Debra Nelson issued a written ruling denying Zimmerman’s defense attorneys’ motion for the judge to reconsider an earlier ruling. In that ruling earlier this month, the judge said the defense could not depose Crump because it is not necessary and would violate Crump’s attorney-client privilege with the Martin family.

The defense asked Nelson to reconsider, and allow them to question Crump under oath before the trial, based on what they say is new evidence. However, in this written ruling, Nelson is once again refusing to allow the defense to depose Crump.

ETA: Order Denying Reconsideration

 

[Rare Truth]

Looks like Judge Nelson wasted no time telling O'Mara and his goons to stuff it.

 

[Unabogie]

Looks like Judge Nelson wasted no time telling O'Mara and his goons to stuff it.

Yeah, one page of "STFU".

 

[Cylinder]

So, you guys agree that in a criminal case, a civil attorney recorded coaching a witness and editing a recording of that coaching should be free from examination by a defendant?

 

[Rare Truth]

Yeah, one page of "STFU".

Off in the distance, the tears of impotent rage can be heard splatting on the ground..

 

[sgtbaker]

Cell phones have noise canceling software built into them to weed out sounds below a certain decibel level. I don't think a lack of sound is indicative that nothing was happening.

He was obviously very quick to exit his vehicle. You hear the "**** he's running", then the sound of the door opening. Somewhere in that time he grabs the flashlight, looks around, then starts running after the "suspect". All the while he's still on the phone, so he's doing this with one hand. Once he grabs the flashlight, he's doing this with both hands full. That slows you down. I just don't think there's any support for the idea that he only did all of this once the dispatcher asked him "which way is he running?" since there's just not enough time for all this other stuff. Plus it flies in the face of common sense.

By the way, I hear the "**** he's running" at 2:11 of the call. And the chime happens exactly at 2:14 and matches the word "running" in "which way is he running?".

In other words, even if you don't account for the delay time, that's just 3 seconds and he's got his door open, before he could even process what the dispatcher just asked him since the dispatcher wasn't even done asking it.

Plus it takes him another 3 seconds to answer that question, and at that time, he's clearly out of his truck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8

Are you still using the edited video because on all the video's I've seen, "**** he's running starts between 2:07 and 2:08. Look on the audio picture Dan O. posted. The three clicks and chime of the door occur after the dispatcher finishes his question. The dispatcher finishes "runnin" at 2:09 and the three clicks are at 2:10. The phone apparently picks up everything you want it to hear with zero distortion but if the sound not there, it's because the phone didn't pick it up. Can you acknowledge, at least, the possibility that the phone didn't pick up the sound because it didn't happen?

Here is the audio I have been using
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw

 

[sgtbaker]

Does this work?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=868&pictureid=7586[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=868&pictureid=7587[/qimg]

02:06.831 sss, hit,,he's,running…
02:08.260 he's running, which way is he running
02:09.427 click click click buzz clack thud (shifting to park?)
02:09.962 chime
02:10.309 ah (exhale)
02:10.623 chime
02:10.793 thud
02:11.141 wooo
02:11.364 He's down towards
02:12.181 the ah
02:12.901 chime
02:12.976 other entrance
02:13.343 (high frequency)
02:13.635 of the neighborhood

If we are talking ms it might be a big deal but I am not sure if it adds or takes away too much. I can say I listened to that audio a lot of times and I hear, "He's runnin? Which way is he runnin?" I don't hear him say "in which way," However, with the extra syllable added in the audio lines up perfectly.