Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Dan O.]

He had the door open in 3 seconds. Part of that time was spent grabbing the flashlight. The dispatcher had not even finished asking him the question before he opens the door. Therefore, his opening the door was not a reaction to what the dispatcher asked him.

What I heard and saw while processing this last night was a distinct separation between the dispatcher speaking and the first "clunk" in the series that ends with the door opening and the chime sounding. I listened very closely including changing the playback speed for any noise overlaying the speech and could not find it.

What I intend to do tonight is reproduce the chart I posted earlier at a high resolution and add annotations for each sound. I'll be busy for a while still so untill then, maybe someone with the audio would be kind enough to listen to that segment and offer the set of text labels for each sound.

Also, do I have an authoritive copy of this recording or is there a specific link that I should pull it from.

 

[Rare Truth]

I just want to say, "Darkman", kudo's on your awesome handle choice and wow! what a killer avatar!

 

[Unabogie]

What I heard and saw while processing this last night was a distinct separation between the dispatcher speaking and the first "clunk" in the series that ends with the door opening and the chime sounding. I listened very closely including changing the playback speed for any noise overlaying the speech and could not find it.

What I intend to do tonight is reproduce the chart I posted earlier at a high resolution and add annotations for each sound. I'll be busy for a while still so untill then, maybe someone with the audio would be kind enough to listen to that segment and offer the set of text labels for each sound.

Also, do I have an authoritive copy of this recording or is there a specific link that I should pull it from.

I don't think we have an authoritative version. I used the one from TPM to show that the chime happened at 2:14.

 

[Alt+F4]

As to still not needing guns, I hope none of you ever do need one since if you do you won't have one.

After 48 years of living in a high crime city without a gun (and yes, I have been a crime victim) I would not change a thing.

Also have the big, iron frying pan under the bed.

 

[Darkman]

I just want to say, "Darkman", kudo's on your awesome handle choice and wow! what a killer avatar!

Thanks, Rare Truth!

I hope you are being sincere, though, lol

Rather than being sarcastic in some way... --- Cuz i had this nickname FOR AGES now (when Darkman is taken, I go to Darkman00 etc) ... and have this avatar for about 5 years or so almost anywhere I am at ( it's original size i think 130 on it's longest side, but I had to reduce it to 100 here )

This avatar I found at some Russian Jewish forum few years back .. - It was a generic avatar that was given to people who didn't want to use their own one... -- On the pic is a Jewish guy (you can see a kippah on his head, lol) .. and it says there in Russian something like:

"Everyone knows me anyhow"

(Meaning i guess something like: "I don't need to select an avatar -- Everyone knows me anyhow")

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I just want to say, "Darkman", kudo's on your awesome handle choice and wow! what a killer avatar!

Some advice below:

People: Let's not go making things personal again, and start in with such bickering...kay?

We had this thread shut down to moderation status before. Let's not let that happen again.

Please?

 

[Darkman]

Rare Truth,

Here is my avatar in it's original size: (without being reduced to 100 on it's longest side)

 

[Darkman]

Let's see if i did my signature correctly here ... I just made one

-----------

March 27, 2013 - 6:23 PM

Lawyer wants prosecutors sanctioned in Martin case

Published: 5:21 pm | Updated: 5:22 pm

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - Defense attorneys for the Florida man charged in the shooting of Trayvon Martin are asking the judge to sanction prosecutors for withholding information about a key witness.

Read more: http://www.mytvjax.com/content/tops...ed-in-Martin-case/IwtNz9wT30-kSb15sgTG4w.cspx

 

[Darkman]

Zimmerman Case Stuff – Defense Files Reponse To Crump etc

DEFENDANT'S REPLY TO NON-PARTY BENJAMIN L. CRUMP, ESQ.'S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/defendant_rep.pdf

 

[Darkman]

Zimmerman's brother is on Piers Morgan tonight .. on CNN .. in about an hour.

 

[Alt+F4]

Zimmerman's brother is on Piers Morgan tonight .. on CNN .. in about an hour.

Damn! My brother has been trying to get on CNN for years to talk about his average life. I guess me not killing someone stood in his way.

 

[Unabogie]

Zimmerman's brother is on Piers Morgan tonight .. on CNN .. in about an hour.

Guess they figured out it wasn't good to be the face of the Zimmermans and the Klan at the same time.

 

[Darkman]

Besides .. PM needs ratings, more likely

 

[12AX7]

CNN analyst on Zimmerman brother’s racist rant: Two sides to every story

By Eric W. Dolan
Wednesday, March 27, 2013 17:38 EDT

[qimg]http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/cnn_nr_zimmerman_130327c-615x345.jpg[/qimg]

CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin on Wednesday offered a rationale for racist messages sent by George Zimmerman’s brother, saying there were “two sides to this story.”

“I spoke to him for about 45 minutes,” she said. “And anyone that knows Robert Zimmerman and has spoken to him knows he’s very passionate about his family, very, very supportive of his brother.”

Read more and watch the VIDEO: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/...rothers-racist-rant-two-sides-to-every-story/​

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Guess they figured out it wasn't good to be the face of the Zimmermans and the Klan at the same time.

Hey, maybe while you are busy not wathcing RZ jr, you can check into the items below:

He did claim it felt like his head was going to explode. (just in case you feel the need to point out that his head wasn't actually going to explode.)
He did claim TM hit him so hard it so hard that it felt like he had bricks in his hands.

Hmm, I don't see where he said he was beat within an inch of his life.

Are you really disputing that you made that claim ?

Also, still waiting to a link to where GZ claimed to be punched 25-30 times in the face. I remember discussing it, but I don't remember the outcome.

Also, still waiting for you to quote where I made that claim "George NEVER did anything that makes him look like a wannabe superhero " so we can all see if you actually "demolished" it.

Also, still waiting for you to conceded that evidence was provided that the diagnosis issued by the PA was a broken nose.

 

[Unabogie]

Hey, maybe while you are busy not wathcing RZ jr, you can check into the items below:

He did claim it felt like his head was going to explode. (just in case you feel the need to point out that his head wasn't actually going to explode.)
He did claim TM hit him so hard it so hard that it felt like he had bricks in his hands.

Which is precisely why his actual injuries, not the ones in his imagination, will be compared to that "feeling".

Hmm, I don't see where he said he was beat within an inch of his life.

His claims are what they are and will be compared to reality. You can parse words all you want. If his injuries don't match his story, it will be used against him in court.

Also, still waiting to a link to where GZ claimed to be punched 25-30 times in the face. I remember discussing it, but I don't remember the outcome.

That was from Serino, referencing something George had told him. I'm not sure where George said that, but he didn't dispute it when Serino brought it up.

Also, still waiting for you to quote where I made that claim "George NEVER did anything that makes him look like a wannabe superhero " so we can all see if you actually "demolished" it.

You claimed that George never attempted to catch anyone. I demonstrated that he clearly did when he GOT INTO HIS CAR AND CHASED SOMEONE.

You think the police blessed that little escapade? "Yes sir, keep a visual on him and don't let him lose you". Can you imagine anything more reckless than chasing a "suspect" with a car? Oh, right. Chasing a "suspect" with a gun and killing him. Point taken.

Also, still waiting for you to conceded that evidence was provided that the diagnosis issued by the PA was a broken nose.

First of all, he said it was a doctor. It wasn't. And the PA said it was "likely broken" and suggested a trip to a real doctor to confirm, which George declined. That's all we know. "Likely broken" but not confirmed by X-rays or any kind of specialist. So no, I think it's possible he broke his nose, but that's not a confirmed fact. And again, he won't be calling that PA as a witness.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

His claims are what they are and will be compared to reality. You can parse words all you want. If his injuries don't match his story, it will be used against him in court.

Well, I was simply quoting what you said. You said:

he said he was beat within an inch of his life.

But he didn't say that. So it makes it difficult to have a discussion when you are putting words into GZs mouth that didn't originally come from there, and then dismissing it as "parsing words" when being called out on it.

That was from Serino, referencing something George had told him. I'm not sure where George said that, but he didn't dispute it when Serino brought it up.

So the truth is, you don't know if GZ actually said it.

You claimed that George never attempted to catch anyone. I demonstrated that he clearly did when he GOT INTO HIS CAR AND CHASED SOMEONE.

Which is totally not the same as trying to catch someone. So you demonstrated something different than your claim. How is that useful ?

You think the police blessed that little escapade? "Yes sir, keep a visual on him and don't let him lose you". Can you imagine anything more reckless than chasing a "suspect" with a car? Oh, right. Chasing a "suspect" with a gun and killing him. Point taken.

I don't know. I'll withhold judgment until I have more facts. Can you link to where all the information can be found on that incident ?

First of all, he said it was a doctor. It wasn't.

I soooo didn't see that nitpick coming. Unless your claim is that a PA is incapable of diagnosing a broken nose, it seems rather irrelevant.

And the PA said it was "likely broken" ,

What was written on the diagnosis ? Nasal fracture. The diagnosis was a broken nose.

and suggested a trip to a real doctor to confirm,

Yes, because PAs always refer to ENTs as "the real doctor"

which George declined. That's all we know. "Likely broken" but not confirmed by X-rays or any kind of specialist.

For the, I don't know, 10th maybe time ... that's how broken noses are diagnosed. X-rays are not required to confirm the diagnosis because they don't change the treatment.

So no, I think it's possible he broke his nose, but that's not a confirmed fact. And again, he won't be calling that PA as a witness.

Why would the PA need to be called ? The medical report speaks for itself - from phonebooks post:

 

[Unabogie]

Why would the PA need to be called ? The medical report speaks for itself - from phonebooks post:
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/F0v2YaA.png[/qimg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the PA would need to be called in order to even use that document. She would need to be asked if she wrote those words and what she meant by them. That's the definition of hearsay: "proffered to show the truth of something". Especially since she also wrote "likely broken". And of course, referred George to an ENT, which he declined.

Furthermore, while an X-Ray is not needed, the signs of a broken nose can be present in a nose that isn't broken.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/broken-nose-nasal-fracture-topic-overview

You can break your nose during play, sports, accidents, fights, and falls. But it may be hard to tell if your nose is broken. Swelling can make your nose look crooked even if it is not broken. When the swelling goes down after a few days, it is easier to tell if your nose is really crooked and possibly broken.

Huh, so swelling is indicative of a broken nose, but not conclusive. And furthermore:

Your doctor may treat a simple fracture by straightening the bone or cartilage in your nose, if it is crooked. Splints or nasal packing (packing the nose with gauze) also may be necessary.

Except no one did that for George. Not the EMTs, not the PA, and certainly not a doctor. In fact, his nose stopped bleeding immediately. So no, it's not a fact that he broke his nose. He had a swollen nose that was "likely broken".

 

[phonebook]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the PA would need to be called in order to even use that document.

Gladly:

Hearsay exceptions; availability of declarant immaterial

(4) STATEMENTS FOR PURPOSES OF MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS OR TREATMENT

Statements made for purposes of medical diagnosis or treatment by a person seeking the diagnosis or treatment, or made by an individual who has knowledge of the facts and is legally responsible for the person who is unable to communicate the facts, which statements describe medical history, past or present symptoms, pain, or sensations, or the inceptions or general character of the cause or external source thereof, insofar as reasonably pertinent to diagnosis or treatment.

She would need to be asked if she wrote those words and what she meant by them. That's the definition of hearsay: "proffered to show the truth of something". Especially since she also wrote "likely broken". And of course, referred George to an ENT, which he declined.

http://i.imgur.com/F0v2YaA.png

So right there on the diagnosis chart/list, when she diagnosed him with "Nasal bones, closed fracture", she will need to clarify what she meant by that?

Furthermore, while an X-Ray is not needed, the signs of a broken nose can be present in a nose that isn't broken.

"You can break your nose during play, sports, accidents, fights, and falls. But it may be hard to tell if your nose is broken. Swelling can make your nose look crooked even if it is not broken. When the swelling goes down after a few days, it is easier to tell if your nose is really crooked and possibly broken."

He didn't have only swelling, he also had black eyes, both "typical of this injury". And again, he was diagnosed, by a medical professional, with a broken nose. It wasn't him looking in the mirror, seeing his nose was swollen and concluding that it was broken.

Also from your Link:

A broken nose is diagnosed through a physical examination and medical history. An X-ray of the nose is not usually needed or helpful if only a broken nose is suspected.

Huh, so swelling is indicative of a broken nose, but not conclusive. And furthermore:

"Your doctor may treat a simple fracture by straightening the bone or cartilage in your nose, if it is crooked. Splints or nasal packing (packing the nose with gauze) also may be necessary."

Except no one did that for George. Not the EMTs, not the PA, and certainly not a doctor. In fact, his nose stopped bleeding immediately. So no, it's not a fact that he broke his nose. He had a swollen nose that was "likely broken".

His nose wasn't crooked, because he had no "septal deviation". If there is no deviation, there is no need for straightening.

 

[Dan O.]

Does this work?

02:06.831 sss, hit,,he's,running…
02:08.260 he's running, which way is he running
02:09.427 click click click buzz clack thud (shifting to park?)
02:09.962 chime
02:10.309 ah (exhale)
02:10.623 chime
02:10.793 thud
02:11.141 wooo
02:11.364 He's down towards
02:12.181 the ah
02:12.901 chime
02:12.976 other entrance
02:13.343 (high frequency)
02:13.635 of the neighborhood