Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[adamwho]

This whole drama looks completely unnecessary to me. I've seen people on both sides who now refuse to read anything by someone on the other side, even if it has nothing to do with this issue.

It is unnecessary but there is one group that started it and which continues to demonize all dissenting opinion.

In my mind, there are going to have to be quite a few apologies on the FtB/atheism+ side and a considerable amount of time post-FtB/Atheism+ before I take them seriously again.

Driving the tiny atheist/skeptic community away from their missions and into this unnecessary conflict for their personal political activism and career ambitions is inexcusable.

 

[Humes fork]

It is unnecessary but there is one group that started it and which continues to demonize all dissenting opinion.

Agreed. I also suspect that politics is a driving issue. PZ Myers wants everyone to share his politics, which is stupidly limiting. I'm not a libertarian, but I don't object to Michael Shermer being one (and he is the last person demanding everyone must share his politics).

Myers also doesn't understand the fact/value distinction. No, you can't use science to demonstrate that slavery is wrong. It's a societal agreement we have reached (in the West at least), and it may have been informed by science, but it is nt scientific, and you can't point to an empirical fact to show that slavery supporters are factually wrong.

In my mind, there are going to have to be quite a few apologies on the FtB/atheism+ side and a considerable amount of time post-FtB/Atheism+ before I take them seriously again.

The apology is unfortunately not going to happen.

Driving the tiny atheist/skeptic community away from their missions and into this unnecessary conflict for their personal political activism and career ambitions is inexcusable.

Agreed.

 

[monoman]

Anyone know offhand what the A+ stance on miscegenation is?

For that matter, are they for all intents and purposes homogeneous in their beliefs, politics, and ideology?

Why don't you sign up, post a question and find out?

We'll see you in either 10 minutes or 10 hours depending on whether you're given the chance to read your friendly basket of links.

 

[monoman]

For a classic example of the tribal nature of ftb+ crew, see this pz myers thread.

Search for ellenbeth in the comments. Ellenbeth Wachs is someone very much on the ftb+ side of things. She organizers conferences and is a bit of a name and assumed the posters would know who she is.

The thread is about the Adria Richards donglegate afair.

The posters didn't know who she is and Ellenbeth neglected to put her personal feelings to one side and follow the ftb+ narrative.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

The thread is about the Adria Richards donglegate afair.

Whenever one of these new scandals comes along, it reminds me of the bit from "That Mitchell and Webb Look":

Webb: That must be the biggest scandal since Watergategate.
Mitchell: Watergategate? Isn't it just Watergate?
Webb: No, that would mean it was just about water. No, it was a scandal or "gate" — add the suffix '-gate', that's what you do with a scandal — involving the Watergate Hotel. So it was called the Watergate scandal, or Watergategate.''

 

[Doctor Plop]

Is a Muslim man who thinks protecting his wife in public means that she must wear a burka a misogynist?

I don't know.

Is a feminist who believes women need special protections because of 'patriarchy' a misogynist?

I don't know.

Is a person who cites factual differences between men and women a misogynist?

I don't know.

Is a person who ignores factual differences between men and women a misogynist?

I don't know.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

For a classic example of the tribal nature of ftb+ crew, see this pz myers thread.

Ah, the thread at the end of the blog post entitled "Adria Richards did everything exactly right".

WOW. If I had any doubts left about the relevance of PZ Myers, they've been completely blown away. Nobody agreed with what that woman did. Even the comments on her own blog were overwhelmingly negative. Yet, of course, PZ is eager to go to bat for her.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

In fact, disagreement doesn't make a person a misogynist, hate of women makes one a misogynist. And even the label misogynist has a HUGE cultural component to it.

Is a Muslim man who thinks protecting his wife in public means that she must wear a burka a misogynist?

Is a feminist who believes women need special protections because of 'patriarchy' a misogynist?

Is a person who cites factual differences between men and women a misogynist?

Is a person who ignores factual differences between men and women a misogynist?

Using "misogynist" as a synonym for "chauvinist" or "sexist" (as many feminists do) is just plain dumb. It is not the same. Actual misogyny, much like actual racism, is pretty rare. Sexism is much more common. But calling somebody a "sexist" isn't as rhetorically hyperbolic as calling someone a "misogynist".

It's not enough that you think I'm inferior in some way, no. You must hate my guts, too! And not just mine, but all women, everywhere! Look, just look at what a monster my opponent is!

Sometimes I wonder where feminism would be now, without this insane rhetoric. Well, it seems to be working out great for them, huh? I wouldn't want to tone police them, now.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Why don't you sign up, post a question and find out?

We'll see you in either 10 minutes or 10 hours depending on whether you're given the chance to read your friendly basket of links.

I stay away from them because I'm not eager to be strawmanned by those nuts.

Their demand to read the basket of links reinforces the impression that they're an exclusive club that hazes new applicants before inclusion.

I'd rather observe them from afar than spend any time in their snake pit.

I just have trouble imagining how these SJWs would handle an underpriveleged dating a privileged. I have this intuition that some of them have racial purity leanings ... data one is unlikely to find in their basket. E. g. is someone overflowing with black pride and hate for whites willing to have half-white children? (I won't name names)

 

[Stout]

Nobody agreed with what that woman did. Even the comments on her own blog were overwhelmingly negative. Yet, of course, PZ is eager to go to bat for her.

A+ agreed with what she did, right from the first post. We have one black woman vs 2 white men and the SJW credo dictates that they must support the less privileged. It' a matter of principal.

 

[squealpiggy]

For a classic example of the tribal nature of ftb+ crew, see this pz myers thread.

Search for ellenbeth in the comments. Ellenbeth Wachs is someone very much on the ftb+ side of things. She organizers conferences and is a bit of a name and assumed the posters would know who she is.

The thread is about the Adria Richards donglegate afair.

The posters didn't know who she is and Ellenbeth neglected to put her personal feelings to one side and follow the ftb+ narrative.

There was an awful lot of sense in that thread. Mainly being spoken by Ellenbeth and the few others who questioned the wisdom and fairness of Richards' actions.

Here's an interesting comment from there.

"You’re the one derailing the discussion to complain about how Adria reported the incident."

I may have missed something but isn't the discussion about how Adria reported the incident?

 

[monoman]

I stay away from them because I'm not eager to be strawmanned by those nuts.

Their demand to read the basket of links reinforces the impression that they're an exclusive club that hazes new applicants before inclusion.

I'd rather observe them from afar than spend any time in their snake pit.

I just have trouble imagining how these SJWs would handle an underpriveleged dating a privileged. I have this intuition that some of them have racial purity leanings ... data one is unlikely to find in their basket. E. g. is someone overflowing with black pride and hate for whites willing to have half-white children? (I won't name names)

Just to be clear Mr. Scott, I was joking - I'm not a masochist

 

[monoman]

Whenever one of these new scandals comes along, it reminds me of the bit from "That Mitchell and Webb Look":

Webb: That must be the biggest scandal since Watergategate.
Mitchell: Watergategate? Isn't it just Watergate?
Webb: No, that would mean it was just about water. No, it was a scandal or "gate" — add the suffix '-gate', that's what you do with a scandal — involving the Watergate Hotel. So it was called the Watergate scandal, or Watergategate.''

Makes me wonder whether the scandal involving Downing street and Andrew Mitchell was called "DowningStreetGateGate"

 

[s_pepys]

There was an awful lot of sense in that thread. Mainly being spoken by Ellenbeth and the few others who questioned the wisdom and fairness of Richards' actions.

Here's an interesting comment from there.

"You’re the one derailing the discussion to complain about how Adria reported the incident."

I may have missed something but isn't the discussion about how Adria reported the incident?

holy cow! thats one scary thread. its the last time im reading pharyngula. i cant stand it any more. its to depressing.

a dongle joke? seriously? you couldnt make ths stuff up.

my favourite post:

kate_waters 22 March 2013 at 5:24 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment My facts? That you’re a victim blaming, misogynistic “chill girl” who lacks basic reading comprehension? The facts you yourself have presented in this very thread? I’ve got them plenty straight. You’re gross. You’re icky. You’re a bumbling ****nugget who lacks basic decency and has no idea of how to behave properly.

hmmmm.....pot....kettle....

 

[s_pepys]

Makes me wonder whether the scandal involving Downing street and Andrew Mitchell was called "DowningStreetGateGate"

it was just gate-gate.

true.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Just to be clear Mr. Scott, I was joking - I'm not a masochist

Cool, works either way for me. Every so often, the thought flashes in my head to go sign up at A+ and interact with "them." The thought vanishes in less than a second after recall of how they treated others.

My interest is to understand reality. There's appears to be winning for the team -- screw reality. They want to burn at the stake the strawman of anyone who questions their reality in their "safe space."

At least, since I hear they've stopped updating their ban list, they are no longer adding to their gallery of lynching victims.

 

[Stout]

I doubt I'd make it through my 10 post probationary period before getting banned from A+

I'd see crap like this.

women are fickle teases who also have periods which just seem totally unnatural, and who knows what types of signals all those complicated internal organs are sending to their lady brains?

and I'd be unable to stop myself from crying horse hockey !! and question just who thinks that a woman having a period is "unnatural"

Thread

 

[squealpiggy]

holy cow! thats one scary thread. its the last time im reading pharyngula. i cant stand it any more. its to depressing.

a dongle joke? seriously? you couldnt make ths stuff up.

my favourite post:



hmmmm.....pot....kettle....

It's amazing that somebody used the phrase "icky". I don't use that word. Because I'm not seven years old.

Ellenbeth Wachs was a little bit naive. I mean she's a well know atheist activist in a position of influence who is also a woman, the sort of person whom feminists can look up to, right?

Unfortunately for Social Justice Warriors the only thing worse than being an oppressor is standing up to the oppressors. A woman who defies the patriarchy is worse than the patriarchy because it makes the ones that don't stand up for themselves look bad.

The debate is simple: Rape threats = not okay. Death threats = not okay. DDOS attacks = not okay. Firing her? I'm fine with that.

She wasn't fired because her company was attacked by 4chan virgins. She was fired because she showed a lack of judgment and incredible peavishness that brought bad publicity onto her employers.

 

[zooterkin]

it was just gate-gate.

true.

Indeed. It was also known as Plebgate (also, apparently, as Plodgate, though I don't think I heard that one).

 

[zooterkin]

There was an awful lot of sense in that thread. Mainly being spoken by Ellenbeth and the few others who questioned the wisdom and fairness of Richards' actions.

Here's an interesting comment from there.

"You’re the one derailing the discussion to complain about how Adria reported the incident."

I may have missed something but isn't the discussion about how Adria reported the incident?

There's a thread about Donglegate here.