Moderated Global Warming Discussion

[r-j]

not worth it

 

[uke2se]

It's not surprising that nobody considers this a science topic. Hundreds of posts contain nothing more than insults. And when real science links and discussion show up, the regulars act like they can't understand what is being said. But nobody ever says anything about the constant nonsense. Especially the Moderators of the forum.

If you can't understand how that sort of "discussion" is about as far away from education (the E in JREF) as you can get, you probably will sit around and claim victory when nobody wants to even try to discuss climate science with you.

It's funny, and it makes you look bad. Not the people you insult. They look smart, for refusing to read that sort of YouTube level comments.

What are you talking about? Are you claiming that there was no science in this thread before you showed up?

 

[r-j]

I suspected that we would now hear something like that. Way to ignore the facts which are evident.

It's exactly like when I pointed out that world food production was at a record high, an all time high. Rather than discuss the facts, rather than be scientific, there were insults and derision.

Or when it is brought up that winters are getting colder, more snow, and it is claimed that what is being stated is impossible to understand.

Then science publications are mentioned, about a possible reason for the colder winters, and that is impossible to understand, and we see insults and nonsense posted instead.

It's not a science discussion. I don't know what it is, but it's not science.

 

[uke2se]

I suspected that we would now hear something like that. Way to ignore the facts which are evident.

It's exactly like when I pointed out that world food production was at a record high, an all time high. Rather than discuss the facts, rather than be scientific, there were insults and derision.

Who are you talking to? This wouldn't seem to be a reply to my previous question.

Or when it is brought up that winters are getting colder, more snow, and it is claimed that what is being stated is impossible to understand.

Winters globally aren't getting colder. That was demonstrated to you using scientific literature.

Then science publications are mentioned, about a possible reason for the colder winters, and that is impossible to understand, and we see insults and nonsense posted instead.

It's not a science discussion. I don't know what it is, but it's not science.

I am still not sure what you're talking about. Your posts read like incoherent rants, so you might want to work on that.

I gather you are claiming there was no science in this thread before you showed up then? A simple yes or no would suffice as an answer.

 

[r-j]

Science?

The temperature gradient between equator and poles is what creates the jetstream. The cold air nearer the poles has no more influence than the warm air nearer the equator.

That is just pure nonsense, it isn't science, it isn't even bad science. The cold from the lack of sun in the winter is exactly what causes the intense jet streams, as it interacts with the warm tropical air masses. In the summer the jet streams retreat to the poles, and are very weak, because there is little difference between the temperatures then. It is winter (and spring) when the vast differences cause the powerful jet streams, the storms, the snow, most tornadoes, it's all due to the difference.

In the summer there are very weak fronts, and we don't see anything like the winter patterns at all. Much less do we see powerful jet streams and cold fronts pushing even farther south. That is why the hypothesis that "weaker" jet streams lead to more cold air spilling south is bunk. With out a large cold air mass to create the jet streams, and with out a lot of cold air, cold fronts don't get very far south,

A warm arctic (like in summer) leads to jet streams much farther north, with much less energy. It is cold that drives the jet streams to descend into the tropics. Not heat. The Rossby waves is another story, but they no more create the cold weather than a jet stream.

It's a bit surprising to see such a level of wrong on this forum.

 

[uke2se]

Science?



That is just pure nonsense, it isn't science, it isn't even bad science. The cold from the lack of sun in the winter is exactly what causes the intense jet streams, as it interacts with the warm tropical air masses. In the summer the jet streams retreat to the poles, and are very weak, because there is little difference between the temperatures then. It is winter (and spring) when the vast differences cause the powerful jet streams, the storms, the snow, most tornadoes, it's all due to the difference.

In the summer there are very weak fronts, and we don't see anything like the winter patterns at all. Much less do we see powerful jet streams and cold fronts pushing even farther south. That is why the hypothesis that "weaker" jet streams lead to more cold air spilling south is bunk. With out a large cold air mass to create the jet streams, and with out a lot of cold air, cold fronts don't get very far south,

A warm arctic (like in summer) leads to jet streams much farther north, with much less energy. It is cold that drives the jet streams to descend into the tropics. Not heat. The Rossby waves is another story, but they no more create the cold weather than a jet stream.

It's a bit surprising to see such a level of wrong on this forum.

It helps if you source your claims.

It seems to me that CapelDodger's claim is correct, and that your claim is a bit dubious, although that could just be my inability to understand any of your posts.

 

[r-j]

It's an amazing thing. The most unscientific insulting posts here get no attention, but you post something scientific, and clearly state a fact, and it's viewed as

Your posts read like incoherent rants, so you might want to work on that.

So rather than talk about new developments in climate science, which are even being labeled as "due to global warming", there are hundreds of lines of text that talk about other people.

This can't be by chance.

 

[uke2se]

It's an amazing thing. The most unscientific insulting posts here get no attention, but you post something scientific, and clearly state a fact, and it's viewed as

So rather than talk about new developments in climate science, which are even being labeled as "due to global warming", there are hundreds of lines of text that talk about other people.

This can't be by chance.

I was trying to help you understand why people don't engage with you on scientific matters: We simply can't understand what the hell you're on about.

It is interesting that you snipped all of my post except the part that you could misconstrue as an insult, though. Are you here to troll, or are you here to discuss matters?

 

[r-j]

I posted a link to NASA, James Hansen, discussing his theoretical ideas to explain the colder winters.

You claim not to understand

I point out it even has a graph showing the winters trending down

You ask what is your point? We can't understand you

I post links to multiple articles, based on science, about the exact same issue

You claim it sounds like a rant and is incoherent

When you finally realize that yes, winters have been getting colder, you hand wave it away by saying global temperatures are not colder

And you think I am not making sense?

Priceless

 

[r-j]

I was trying to help you understand why people don't engage with you on scientific matters: We simply can't understand what the hell you're on about.

Oh piffle. That is a lie, and you know it.

You seem to understand just fine, it's that you seem to not to "like" certain things. I posted a link to skepticalscience supporting the idea that global warming may be responsible for the colder winters.

And you claim to not understand. Nobody is that dense.

 

[uke2se]

I posted a link to NASA, James Hansen, discussing his theoretical ideas to explain the colder winters.

Globally, winters aren't colder. Please understand that.

You claim not to understand

I rarely understand your posts, yes.

I point out it even has a graph showing the winters trending down

Winters are getting hotter globally. Please realize this.

You ask what is your point? We can't understand you

Yes. What is your point?

I post links to multiple articles, based on science, about the exact same issue

You claim it sounds like a rant and is incoherent

Yes, your posts very often come off as incoherent rants.

When you finally realize that yes, winters have been getting colder, you hand wave it away by saying global temperatures are not colder

I don't realize that winters have been getting colder. It has been shown to you that winters globally have in fact been getting warmer.

And you think I am not making sense?

Priceless

Yes, your posts rarely make sense.

 

[uke2se]

Oh piffle. That is a lie, and you know it.

You're a mind reader then? It's the truth. Your posts are incoherent messes.

You seem to understand just fine, it's that you seem to not to "like" certain things. I posted a link to skepticalscience supporting the idea that global warming may be responsible for the colder winters.

Winters globally have been getting hotter, not colder.

And you claim to not understand. Nobody is that dense.

I can't understand you. I can understand that the claim that winters have been getting colder is a load of tosh.

READ the article from skeptical science. READ it and understand that the author is talking about WEATHER and not CLIMATE.

ETA: Again you dishonestly snipped my post. Your agenda is getting clearer.

 

[Buckaroo]

R-j, putting aside for the moment that your claim that winters are getting colder is demonstrably false, you seem to believe that you are making some kind of point with it. What is that point? You've failed to communicate what conclusion about AGW you are drawing from your erroneous belief about colder winters. This is why we say your posts are incoherent: You are not making any point, just laying out (incorrect) premises. State succinctly what your entire argument is, please.

 

[r-j]

If you were to look out most windows as of this writing, there is a good chance that you would be presented with an image of winter. All around me, winter has sprung, dumping measurable inches of frozen precipitation and snarling the usual habits of work and school as we struggle to cope with its effects on modern life. And more than a few of you might be asking yourself, "What happened to global warming?"

Well, the effects of global warming are all around us. That harsh winter that we are experiencing, it is not proof that global warming is not happening, but rather serves as proof that it is indeed happening, and even a bit faster than we might like to think. It also shows why the phrase "Climate Change" is a better term to describe the effects of man on his environment.

Vladimir Petoukhov, a climate scientist at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, has recently completed a study on the effect of climate change on winter. According to Petoukhov,

These anomalies could triple the probability of cold winter extremes in Europe and northern Asia. Recent severe winters like last year's or the one of 2005-06 do not conflict with the global warming picture, but rather supplement it.

But how does a colder winter support the idea of a warming earth? It's really simple when you look at the evidence.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Global-Warming-Cold-Winters.html

 

[uke2se]

If you were to look out most windows as of this writing, there is a good chance that you would be presented with an image of winter. All around me, winter has sprung, dumping measurable inches of frozen precipitation and snarling the usual habits of work and school as we struggle to cope with its effects on modern life. And more than a few of you might be asking yourself, "What happened to global warming?"

If you are asking yourself that, you fail to understand the difference between weather and climate. We know you can't understand this difference. You have shown so repeatedly.

Well, the effects of global warming are all around us. That harsh winter that we are experiencing, it is not proof that global warming is not happening, but rather serves as proof that it is indeed happening, and even a bit faster than we might like to think. It also shows why the phrase "Climate Change" is a better term to describe the effects of man on his environment.

Yes, the cold local winter in some areas of the world is a sign of global warming. Climate change is a broader phrase than global warming. Both are correct. Again, you fail to understand the difference between climate and weather, global and local.

Vladimir Petoukhov, a climate scientist at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, has recently completed a study on the effect of climate change on winter. According to Petoukhov,

These anomalies could triple the probability of cold winter extremes in Europe and northern Asia. Recent severe winters like last year's or the one of 2005-06 do not conflict with the global warming picture, but rather supplement it.

Again, yes. Locally, winter is getting harsher. Globally, that is not the case.

But how does a colder winter support the idea of a warming earth? It's really simple when you look at the evidence.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Global-Warming-Cold-Winters.html

Correct. Harsher winters locally support global warming.

Was this your whole point? If so, thank you for accepting what we have known for quite some time.

 

[Buckaroo]

R-j, your entire post is a cut-and-paste from SkS. Do you believe you're making some kind of point? What is it?

 

[Buckaroo]

If you are asking yourself that, you fail to understand the difference between weather and climate. We know you can't understand this difference. You have shown so repeatedly.



Yes, the cold local winter in some areas of the world is a sign of global warming. Climate change is a broader phrase than global warming. Both are correct. Again, you fail to understand the difference between climate and weather, global and local.



Again, yes. Locally, winter is getting harsher. Globally, that is not the case.




Correct. Harsher winters locally support global warming.

Was this your whole point? If so, thank you for accepting what we have known for quite some time.

That wasn't even his post. The words are not his -- he lifted it in its entirety from SkS.

 

[r-j]

If you are asking yourself that, you fail to understand the difference between weather and climate. We know you can't understand this difference. You have shown so repeatedly.

Like I said, priceless.

 

[uke2se]

That wasn't even his post. The words are not his -- he lifted it in its entirety from SkS.

That's pretty damned dishonest. Isn't it a breach of Rule 4?

 

[r-j]

That wasn't even his post. The words are not his -- he lifted it in its entirety from SkS.

I quotes it and linked to it the first time. I quoted it and linked to it the second time. Realizing nobody had read it, even when I posted it as evidence for my making the exact same claim, it was time to make somebody read it.

We were not disappointed by the response.

Like I said, this discussion here is not scientific. It's something, but it isn't science.