Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Rare Truth]

Now will you look at that:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/exhibit_list_redacted.pdf
The officer who arrested Zimmerman in 2005 is Officer Paul Monroe Fleischman - and he's alive and well and has never had any disciplinary actions. Been a cop since 2001.You can see it right there on page three of the above link: Paul Monroe Fleischman.

That's where he stated in the charging document:

“I identified myself as a state police officer and showed Zimmerman my badge and asked him to leave the area. He stated, ‘I don’t care who you are.’ I again asked Zimmerman to leave, he then stated "**** you"
at that time I attempted to escort Zimmerman away from the interview room and he struggled away from me and pushed my arms away with his hands. After a short struggle with Zimmerman, he was placed in handcuffs and detained.”

And what did GZ say about it?

==========
Serino: So you didn’t know he was law enforcement?
Zimmerman: No.
Serino: OK.
Zimmerman: No, he didn’t have his badge on at all.
==========
Which takes us to this. FBI accounts from the other officers who were there. Five of 'em. All cops there at the sting.

Page 11: FBI Civil Rights Investigation

In July of 2005, Fannin, Lent, Gilmore, Fleischman, and their Capt. George Garzone, performed an undercover operation at a bar near the university of Florida known as Knight's Library. During the operation, an underage undercover operator went into the bar, attempted to purchase, and was sold alcoholic beverages. As a result, multiple bar employees were removed from the establishment and placed under arrest.

While the state law enforcement officers were processing the prisoners, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN approached one of the prisoners and asked the prisoner what was going on. Fleichman informed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN he was a state law enforcement agent, showed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN his badge, and told him to wait off to the side and Fliechman would explain to him what was going on after the agents were finished with the prisoners.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN had an angry demeanor, and told Flicheman he did not care who he was. Fleichman attempted to escort GEORGE ZIMMERMAN away from the scene. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN then violently shoved Fleicherman, at which point all of the agents working together pushed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN onto the hood of Fannin's car and placed him under arrest for SAVAGE BATTERY upon a poor innocent guy just trying to do his job law enforcement officer.
​

Yep, all five Law Enforcement Officers saying George was lying. Again.

Looks like that little kaboodle off to pin the Jenkins death, (where he did have a badge on him according to the story you linked) and say see? Guy's got a history...was way....way....way...way...off.

Ooops.

Is this the part where Z supporters say, ummm, that dern't matter anyhowz?

 

[Unabogie]

Now will you look at that:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/exhibit_list_redacted.pdf
The officer who arrested Zimmerman in 2005 is Officer Paul Monroe Fleischman - and he's alive and well and has never had any disciplinary actions. Been a cop since 2001.You can see it right there on page three of the above link: Paul Monroe Fleischman.

That's where he stated in the charging document:



And what did GZ say about it?

==========
Serino: So you didn’t know he was law enforcement?
Zimmerman: No.
Serino: OK.
Zimmerman: No, he didn’t have his badge on at all.
==========
Which takes us to this. FBI accounts from the other officers who were there. Five of 'em. All cops there at the sting.

Page 11: FBI Civil Rights Investigation

In July of 2005, Fannin, Lent, Gilmore, Fleischman, and their Capt. George Garzone, performed an undercover operation at a bar near the university of Florida known as Knight's Library. During the operation, an underage undercover operator went into the bar, attempted to purchase, and was sold alcoholic beverages. As a result, multiple bar employees were removed from the establishment and placed under arrest.

While the state law enforcement officers were processing the prisoners, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN approached one of the prisoners and asked the prisoner what was going on. Fleichman informed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN he was a state law enforcement agent, showed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN his badge, and told him to wait off to the side and Fliechman would explain to him what was going on after the agents were finished with the prisoners.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN had an angry demeanor, and told Flicheman he did not care who he was. Fleichman attempted to escort GEORGE ZIMMERMAN away from the scene. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN then violently shoved Fleicherman, at which point all of the agents working together pushed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN onto the hood of Fannin's car and placed him under arrest for SAVAGE BATTERY upon a poor innocent guy just trying to do his job law enforcement officer.
​

Yep, all five Law Enforcement Officers saying George was lying. Again.

Looks like that little kaboodle off to pin the Jenkins death, (where he did have a badge on him according to the story you linked) and say see? Guy's got a history...was way....way....way...way...off.

Ooops.

Is this the part where Z supporters say, ummm, that dern't matter anyhowz?

That'll leave a mark.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Now will you look at that:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/exhibit_list_redacted.pdf
The officer who arrested Zimmerman in 2005 is Officer Paul Monroe Fleischman - and he's alive and well and has never had any disciplinary actions. Been a cop since 2001.You can see it right there on page three of the above link: Paul Monroe Fleischman.

That's where he stated in the charging document:



And what did GZ say about it?

==========
Serino: So you didn’t know he was law enforcement?
Zimmerman: No.
Serino: OK.
Zimmerman: No, he didn’t have his badge on at all.
==========
Which takes us to this. FBI accounts from the other officers who were there. Five of 'em. All cops there at the sting.

Page 11: FBI Civil Rights Investigation

In July of 2005, Fannin, Lent, Gilmore, Fleischman, and their Capt. George Garzone, performed an undercover operation at a bar near the university of Florida known as Knight's Library. During the operation, an underage undercover operator went into the bar, attempted to purchase, and was sold alcoholic beverages. As a result, multiple bar employees were removed from the establishment and placed under arrest.

While the state law enforcement officers were processing the prisoners, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN approached one of the prisoners and asked the prisoner what was going on. Fleichman informed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN he was a state law enforcement agent, showed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN his badge, and told him to wait off to the side and Fliechman would explain to him what was going on after the agents were finished with the prisoners.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN had an angry demeanor, and told Flicheman he did not care who he was. Fleichman attempted to escort GEORGE ZIMMERMAN away from the scene. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN then violently shoved Fleicherman, at which point all of the agents working together pushed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN onto the hood of Fannin's car and placed him under arrest for SAVAGE BATTERY upon a poor innocent guy just trying to do his job law enforcement officer.
​

Yep, all five Law Enforcement Officers saying George was lying. Again.

Looks like that little kaboodle off to pin the Jenkins death, (where he did have a badge on him according to the story you linked) and say see? Guy's got a history...was way....way....way...way...off.

Ooops.

Thanks for the link. It definitely puts GZ's claim in mortal jeopardy.

Is this the part where Z supporters say, ummm, that dern't matter anyhowz?[/QUOTE]

No, this is the part where I say thank you, and, yes it does matter.

 

[Rare Truth]

Well, that was refreshing. Thank you.

Sincerely.

 

[johnny karate]

Well, that was refreshing. Thank you.

Sincerely.

My friend, you are the official MVP of the thread.

Well done, sir.

 

[johnny karate]

I think you are in the minority in denying there was a "fight".

I don't deny there was a fight. Zimmerman does. He describes one person brutally assaulting another, not two people in a fight.

Most people will understand there was a fight, in which GZ described described that he felt TM was going to cause him great bodily injury. Covering someones mouth and nose in an effort to get them to stop screaming is not necessarily a murder attempt.

...the suspect covered my nose and mouth and stopped my breathing.

Forcing someone back down and causing their head to hit the sidewalk is not necessarily a murder attempt.

The suspect grabbed my head and slammed it into the concrete sidewalk several times.

Until this point where GZ claims his weapon is seen/reached for, the words "you gonna die tonight" don't come into play.

Yes, after repeatedly slamming Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk, and stopping his breathing, Martin finally announced his intentions upon reaching for a gun. You know, for anyone not quite clear on what was happening up to that point.

I understand you passionately believe it was an"cold blooded murder attempt" , so I don't plan on arguing the semantics with you again.

Just pointing out that there is an alternative viewpoint.

Considering how hard you worked to disingenuosly underplay the details of Zimmerman's account, I'd say that alternative viewpoint is called "denial".

Do you have a chart with which violent acts correlate with which other violent acts ?

Do you need a chart to tell you that fistfights and murder are completely different?

Nor, I assume, do they assault them for no apparent reason.

At least we can agree that the behavior Zimmerman attributes to Martin is unusual.

 

[Rare Truth]

That'll leave a mark.

I never tire of hearing that.

My friend, you are the official MVP of the thread.

Well done, sir.

Thanks kindly. I think you guys do 'pert good job yourselves.

 

[johnny karate]

It's an incredibly devious plan:

Step 1: Get victim to sucker punch you.
Step 2: Get victim to climb on top of you and slam your head against concrete.
Step 3: Get victim to tell you "you gonna die tonight!"
Step 4: Shoot the victim while he's on top of you.

It's a simple an easy method that you could get almost anyone to fall for.

"Cold-blooded murder attempt" is a characterization of how Zimmerman describes the assault, not a characterization of how Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed teenager, so your snark is misplaced.

 

[johnny karate]

Did you ever read Newtons Bit post below, and does this change your opinion at all ? Or are you sticking with your position GZ is a liar about that night, and of course that officer never identified himself.

I'll think I'll stick with the position that Zimmerman is a liar.

How about you?

 

[This is The End]

If by "rebuffed" you mean, "completely ignored the argument of" then, yea, sure. There is no conviction on record, no guilty plea, and the case is closed.

You do realize that everyone notices that you leave off "because Z entered a pretrial diversion anger management program." from the end of your sentence right?

Here it is, your concluding sentence, in full:

There is no conviction on record, no guilty plea, and the case is closed because Z agreed to enter into a pretrial diversion anger management program.

You were called out on this repeatedly a few months ago.

You repeatedly, in multiple posts, tried to make it look like Z was never punished for the incident, when in reality Z was punished. Unless Newtons Bit would like us to believe that a "pretrial diversion anger management program" is really a Birthday Party!! (They might have cookies at one, but I seriously doubt that they have cake.... if you can prove that they had cake at the program then I will agree that it wasn't punishment.)

If either L8Elvis or Newton'sBit are perchance busily looking up the name of the arresting officer in 2005, I'll give ya heads up: It's isn't the dude in your story.

Nor is even even the same division.

Uh oh.

I'm pretty sure that was pointed out to them, a few months ago, in a post that everyone seemed to miss, but Newtons Bit had since vanished from the thread by that time anyway...

 

[KatieG]

I think you are in the minority in denying there was a "fight".

Most people will understand there was a fight, in which GZ described described that he felt TM was going to cause him great bodily injury.
Covering someones mouth and nose in an effort to get them to stop screaming is not necessarily a murder attempt. Forcing someone back down and causing their head to hit the sidewalk is not necessarily a murder attempt. Until this point where GZ claims his weapon is seen/reached for, the words "you gonna die tonight" don't come into play.
I understand you passionately believe it was an"cold blooded murder attempt" , so I don't plan on arguing the semantics with you again.

Just pointing out that there is an alternative viewpoint.



Do you have a chart with which violent acts correlate with which other violent acts ?



Nor, I assume, do they assault them for no apparent reason.

There is no evidence those events actually occurred. Just because GZ says that's the way it happened doesn't make it so. There is nothing on TMs hands that indicate he did those things.

 

[KatieG]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/22/us/21george-zimmerman-transcript.html?_r=0

You continue to mistake GZs version of events as absolute truth. It's a story, not a fact.

 

[Rare Truth]

There is no evidence those events actually occurred. Just because GZ says that the way it happened doesn't make it so. There is nothing on TMs hands that indicate he did those things.

Nor on Zimmerman's face. Hands on mouth and nose smothering with the force Z described would be bloody smears all over Z's face. None of that is shown in the bloody picture O'MyMy likes to wave around and around.

 

[Cylinder]

There is nothing on TMs hands that indicate he did those things.

As has been pointed out many times here, Martin's hands were never tested for the presence of blood.

 

[Rare Truth]

As has been pointed out many times here, Martin's hands were never tested for the presence of blood.

You don't think the autopsy report would indicate if there was blood on a victim's hands?

They checked under his fingernails. No Z DNA. They noted lack of blood on the cuffs. No Z DNA.

Not a molecule.

Rather odd, wouldn't you say to completely leave out if the kid had bloody hands when the man who shot him claims those hands were lethal weapons and all...

 

[WildCat]

Above posted before I read your last.

And where do you get the information that was the same officer that arrested Zimmerman in 2005?

NB never claimed Jenkins was the arresting officer, he was the officer allegedly pushed by Zimmerman.

Do you understand the difference?

eta: I see Jenkins wasn't involved at all.

 

[WildCat]

You don't think the autopsy report would indicate if there was blood on a victim's hands?

What evidence do you have the hands were tested? You don't get to just make it up as you go along.

 

[WildCat]

I'll think I'll stick with the position that Zimmerman is a liar.

How about you?

Apparently the prosecution wasn't so sure, and they dropped the charges.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Now will you look at that:

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/exhibit_list_redacted.pdf
The officer who arrested Zimmerman in 2005 is Officer Paul Monroe Fleischman - and he's alive and well and has never had any disciplinary actions. Been a cop since 2001.You can see it right there on page three of the above link: Paul Monroe Fleischman.

That's where he stated in the charging document:



And what did GZ say about it?

==========
Serino: So you didn’t know he was law enforcement?
Zimmerman: No.
Serino: OK.
Zimmerman: No, he didn’t have his badge on at all.
==========
Which takes us to this. FBI accounts from the other officers who were there. Five of 'em. All cops there at the sting.

I hadn't seen that before. So, it appears I was wrong in repeating that story, as it wasn't true.

Page 11: FBI Civil Rights Investigation

In July of 2005, Fannin, Lent, Gilmore, Fleischman, and their Capt. George Garzone, performed an undercover operation at a bar near the university of Florida known as Knight's Library. During the operation, an underage undercover operator went into the bar, attempted to purchase, and was sold alcoholic beverages. As a result, multiple bar employees were removed from the establishment and placed under arrest.

While the state law enforcement officers were processing the prisoners, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN approached one of the prisoners and asked the prisoner what was going on. Fleichman informed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN he was a state law enforcement agent, showed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN his badge, and told him to wait off to the side and Fliechman would explain to him what was going on after the agents were finished with the prisoners.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN had an angry demeanor, and told Flicheman he did not care who he was. Fleichman attempted to escort GEORGE ZIMMERMAN away from the scene. GEORGE ZIMMERMAN then violently shoved Fleicherman, at which point all of the agents working together pushed GEORGE ZIMMERMAN onto the hood of Fannin's car and placed him under arrest for SAVAGE BATTERY upon a poor innocent guy just trying to do his job law enforcement officer.
​

Yep, all five Law Enforcement Officers saying George was lying. Again.


Looks like that little kaboodle off to pin the Jenkins death, (where he did have a badge on him according to the story you linked) and say see? Guy's got a history...was way....way....way...way...off.

Ooops.

Is this the part where Z supporters say, ummm, that dern't matter anyhowz?

I doubt it will matter legally, but it matters, sure.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You do realize that everyone notices that you leave off "because Z entered a pretrial diversion anger management program." from the end of your sentence right?

Here it is, your concluding sentence, in full:

You were called out on this repeatedly a few months ago.

You repeatedly, in multiple posts, tried to make it look like Z was never punished for the incident, when in reality Z was punished. Unless Newtons Bit would like us to believe that a "pretrial diversion anger management program" is really a Birthday Party!! (They might have cookies at one, but I seriously doubt that they have cake.... if you can prove that they had cake at the program then I will agree that it wasn't punishment.)

I'm pretty sure that was pointed out to them, a few months ago, in a post that everyone seemed to miss, but Newtons Bit had since vanished from the thread by that time anyway...

I'm 100 percent sure it wasn't, but feel free to prove me wrong on this point as well.