Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

[citation needed]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/22/us/21george-zimmerman-transcript.html?_r=0

 

[Unabogie]

So you're saying that the failure to identify oneself is grounds for the police shooting you ? Interesting.

Well no, I'm not.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Well no, I'm not.

And I'm not personalizing the argument, or saying what you attributed to me, either.

Again, you're taking his word for things even though he's a demonstrated liar. Wow. There's nothing you won't swallow from that guy.

But taking his word for a moment, against my better judgement, you're saying that the failure to identify oneself is grounds for assault? Interesting. Does this apply to everyone? Like say, Trayvon Martin?

So how about just sticking to addressing my post ?

GZ claimed the officer didn't identify himself. The FBI interviewed someone who was there with GZ, who corroborated his story. That particular LEO was later shot and killed because, just like GZ claimed, he never identified himself.

I just want to know that in light of the actual evidence above, you think GZ is lying and it's likely the LEO actually identified himself ?

 

[Unabogie]

And I'm not personalizing the argument, or saying what you attributed to me, either.



So how about just sticking to addressing my post ?

GZ claimed the officer didn't identify himself. The FBI interviewed someone who was there with GZ, who corroborated his story. That particular LEO was later shot and killed because, just like GZ claimed, he never identified himself.

I just want to know that in light of the actual evidence above, you think GZ is lying and it's likely the LEO actually identified himself ?

I'm not the one saying that identifying oneself is key. If it were, you'd also be in agreement that George's failure to identify HIMSELF was a factor in why he ended up shooting an innocent kid. But you only take this standard half way.

I don't, in fact, view identification as key. I still say that what's relevant is that George is a violent offender, as his record shows, because he ran over and started pushing and grabbing a person who ended up being DEA. I also say that if this were a one time thing for him, that would help mitigate this pattern, but he keeps getting accused of violence. Which (again, not likely admissible in court) tells me that he's a guy who is quick to push and grab, which is why I think Witness 8 is telling the truth that he tried to grab Trayvon in order to detain him. He puts his hands on people and that's reflected in the record. So in the court of JREF, I find it relevant information.

 

[remirol]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/22/us/21george-zimmerman-transcript.html?_r=0

Biased anecdote != evidence.

It seems we only have George's word for what happened, eh? Well, he'd better make sure that story's good if he gets on the stand. If he does, a large chunk of his case is going to hinge on whether the jury believes him.

 

[Dancing David]

He pled down to a "pretrial diversion program" when he assaulted the DEA agent and had to complete anger management courses. When he assaulted his girlfriend, he was slapped with a restraining order. When he shot Trayvon Martin he was charged with murder.

And again I ask you what is arrest evidence of, it is not the same as conviction, and that is why I ask.

Again this does not show a 'propensity' towards violence nor does it have any bearing on the post that you tacked yours on to.

So again you just seem to be saying something you have said a couple of hundred times before, that had no real bearing on my post.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I'm not the one saying that identifying oneself is key. If it were, you'd also be in agreement that George's failure to identify HIMSELF was a factor in why he ended up shooting an innocent kid. But you only take this standard half way.

I'm not talking about either GZ or TM identifying themselves that night. I'm not talking about that night at all. I'm strictly talking about the incident where GZ shoved a LEO, an incident that you consider to be so important you keep trotting it out.

I don't, in fact, view identification as key. I still say that what's relevant is that George is a violent offender, as his record shows, because he ran over and started pushing and grabbing a person who ended up being DEA.

So the record is more important than what might have actually happened. I'll keep that in mind.

I also say that if this were a one time thing for him, that would help mitigate this pattern, but he keeps getting accused of violence. Which (again, not likely admissible in court) tells me that he's a guy who is quick to push and grab, which is why I think Witness 8 is telling the truth that he tried to grab Trayvon in order to detain him.

Is this where I say "wow, you believe witness 8, the proven liar ?"

He puts his hands on people and that's reflected in the record. So in the court of JREF, I find it relevant information.

But all the other phone calls where he never touched anybody, those count for nothing.

That's fine, I didn't really think evidence would affect your position. Now I know.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Biased anecdote != evidence.

That's quite a silly thing to say. Of course it's evidence.

 

[Rare Truth]

And yet neither of those posts address the fact that the LEO GZ is charged with "assaulting" has a history of not identifying himself.

It's almost as if you intentionally missed the point of the post. Totally believable.

Who was the arresting officer in Zimmerman's 2005 arrest?

 

[Rare Truth]

And I'm not personalizing the argument, or saying what you attributed to me, either.



So how about just sticking to addressing my post ?

GZ claimed the officer didn't identify himself. The FBI interviewed someone who was there with GZ, who corroborated his story. That particular LEO was later shot and killed because, just like GZ claimed, he never identified himself.

I just want to know that in light of the actual evidence above, you think GZ is lying and it's likely the LEO actually identified himself ?

What was the name of "that particular LEO" by chance?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Wow. A post from December that was rebuffed immediately? Seriously?

a few posts after that one:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8871777&postcount=4586

and this one:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8873037&postcount=4599

This was hashed out over an over earlier. Unbelievable.

If by "rebuffed" you mean, "completely ignored the argument of" then, yea, sure. There is no conviction on record, no guilty plea, and the case is closed.

 

[Newtons Bit]

What was the name of "that particular LEO" by chance?

UCF Police Officer Mario Jenkins

 

[Rare Truth]

If by "rebuffed" you mean, "completely ignored the argument of" then, yea, sure. There is no conviction on record, no guilty plea, and the case is closed.

I agree. OnlyTellsTruths did a pretty good job of smacking that argument of yours down.

BTW, glad you're here. Maybe you can answer. As to this, which was reposted by eLvis:

Originally Posted by Newtons Bit
I don't even know if that is correct. I see no conviction or plea recorded in the country data. Also, in GZ's own words:

“I was arrested in July of 2005 for assault on a law enforcement officer and resisting arrest with violence. Both charges were immediately dropped to resisting arrest without violence, and then dropped all together.

“I was in an altercation with an undercover officer that was taking part in an ATF sting for underage drinking in UCF. He never told me he was an officer and assaulted me first. Shortly after that, in September 2005, the same unit was conducting a sting at UCF and an officer was killed by an OPD officer because he discharged his weapon and did not identify himself.

Source

It's a strange story, but one that appears to check out.

Though not an actual federal ATF agent, the officer worked undercover for the State Bureau of Alcohol and Tobacco. On the day he was shot and killed by OPD, he was behaving erratically, unbecoming of a police officer, and in a manner entirely consistent with GZ's claims.

Maybe you know. What was the name of the police officer that arrested Zimmernman in 2005?

 

[Rare Truth]

UCF Police Officer Mario Jenkins

Above posted before I read your last.

And where do you get the information that was the same officer that arrested Zimmerman in 2005?

 

[Noztradamus]

He describes being initially assaulted by TM. At best, it was a fight that evolved into a "murder attempt"
~~

And at worst, a Citizen Arrest that evolved into an actual murder.

This is why we have trials.

 

[Rare Truth]

Above posted before I read your last.

And where do you get the information that was the same officer that arrested Zimmerman in 2005?

I think I'll be waiting a long time for this one...because Methinks someone jumped the gun and made an asssumption based on Zimmerman's er...woids.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Above posted before I read your last.

And where do you get the information that was the same officer that arrested Zimmerman in 2005?

George Zimmerman.

Of course, GZ could be lying and Jenkins wasn't the arresting officer and no one has thought to call him on it yet. That should be something fairly easy to find out though.

 

[Rare Truth]

If either L8Elvis or Newton'sBit are perchance busily looking up the name of the arresting officer in 2005, I'll give ya heads up: It's isn't the dude in your story.

Nor is even even the same division.

Uh oh.

 

[Rare Truth]

George Zimmerman.

Of course, GZ could be lying and Jenkins wasn't the arresting officer and no one has thought to call him on it yet. That should be something fairly easy to find out though.

I found it out. I know the officers name. I also know the corroborating officers names. The ones who corroborated the arresting officers story that he DID indeed flash his badge, and even after he did - Zimmermans said "I don't care who the **** you are."

Nope. Isn't Jenkins. Looks like you fell for George's curious turn of a fee-raze.

 

[Newtons Bit]

If either L8Elvis or Newton'sBit are perchance busily looking up the name of the arresting officer in 2005, I'll give ya heads up: It's isn't the dude in your story.

Nor is even even the same division.

Uh oh.

Source?