2 questions re 1120 'Missing bodies' from WTC 1&2 & media complicity in mass murder

[Oystein]

...
The skyscraper is designed to have safety factor of 3-5 times the mass that it has on it, so it could absorb at least 3mgh energy. ...

Truthers never understand physics. If they did, they wouldn't be truthers. This applies particularly to Physics teachers and PhDs like David Chandler, Crockett Grabbe or David Griscom. So you are in good company.


What you write is FALSE. Apples and oranges.

The "safety factor" is for forces - the actual load on structural elements is a force, and they could bear something like 3-5 that load/force without yielding.

Force is not the same as energy. Do you understand that? So it is silly to apply a safety factor for force capacity to some available enegergy.

 

[Jbui]

Wait, according to your physics, the people who jumped are not injured at all. All the E=mgh they had was used up accelerating them at g. When the hit the ground there was no energy left to kill them; they walked away. According to your physics, that is what had to happen.



Using Jbui special 911 truth fantasy physics...

then all you have left is m*0.0g*h, because 1g has already been used to speed up the body. We have zero energy left to smash the body, the person walks away, because all the energy was used up, according to your physics.

Good luck.

Don't try this at home in the real world. Special idiotic 911 truth fantasy physics only works in the minds of 911 truth followers, who can't do physics.

Beachnut, When the body is smashed all the kinetic energy is then transformed to breaking up the body. Get it? Movement stops - kinetic energy is used.

 

[beachnut]

Beachnut, When the body is smashed all the kinetic energy is then transformed to breaking up the body. Get it? Movement stops - kinetic energy is used.

No, Jbui, you said the energy was used up speeding up the building. Now you say it is not?

You don't have a clue what physics is, and your proved it with this post.

If you accelerate an object, you need energy. If that object is a huge skyscraper, you need a whole bunch of energy. If your potential energy is E=mgh, and you use 70% of that g to speed up the skyscraper, then all you have left is m*0,3g*h, when 0,7g has already been used to speed up the skyscraper.

....

You debunked yourself and you don't know it.


But go ahead, explain, your failed claim. You said.

m*0,3g*h

Please say it again, prove you don't do math and physics again.


The kinetic energy on 911 of the gravity collapse was equal to 260 2,000 pound bombs, enough energy to crush all the people, and eject stuff for 19 acres. You lost this one, and your PNAC stuff failed too. What are those NAZI laws? lol

You can't tell us which NAZI laws are in your fantasy, and you don't know the laws of physics.

A body hitting the ground on 911 would have ~ 156,800 joules, this is why they are sort of in one piece. It is physics, 911 truth can't do physics, or reality. To destroy a body into tiny pieces it takes ~ 19,000,000 joules. The WTC collapse had enough energy to destroy 30,000 people, essentially gone. Sick physics, because you have a sick fantasy.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It's okay, Jack. You can stop trying.

You got it? I'm overjoyed with happiness for you.

My work here is done.

 

[dafydd]

You got it? I'm overjoyed with happiness for you.

My work here is done.

I thought that you might have to resort to crayons and glove puppets.

 

[Jbui]

No, Jbui, you said the energy was used up speeding up the building. Now you say it is not?

You don't have a clue what physics is, and your proved it with this post.

You debunked yourself and you don't know it.


But go ahead, explain, your failed claim. You said.
Please say it again, prove you don't do math and physics again.


The kinetic energy on 911 of the gravity collapse was equal to 260 2,000 pound bombs, enough energy to crush all the people, and eject stuff for 19 acres. You lost this one, and your PNAC stuff failed too. What are those NAZI laws? lol

You can't tell us which NAZI laws are in your fantasy, and you don't know the laws of physics.

A body hitting the ground on 911 would have ~ 156,800 joules, this is why they are sort of in one piece. It is physics, 911 truth can't do physics, or reality. To destroy a body into tiny pieces it takes ~ 19,000,000 joules. The WTC collapse had enough energy to destroy 30,000 people, essentially gone. Sick physics, because you have a sick fantasy.

yes, first the potential energy is used to speed it up, and then the "speed energy", i.e. kinetic energy, is used to break the building up.

So in real life you never see something falling with, and turning to dust without loosing speed/acceleration when it hit's something.

Nazi Laws: NDAA 2012/2013 - US citizens can now be snapped, imprisoned for life and never prosecuted, never let go, they just have to say you had something to do with the "terrorists". This is what all Totalitarian regimes use to shut up dissidents/whistleblowers/assets who know too much.

 

[DGM]

Nazi Laws: NDAA 2012/2013 - US citizens can now be snapped, imprisoned for life and never prosecuted, never let go, they just have to say you had something to do with the "terrorists". This is what all Totalitarian regimes use to shut up dissidents/whistleblowers/assets who know too much.

You're completely safe.

 

[Oystein]

Jbui, you again seem to have missed some replies:

I have rarely seen objections this stupid.

1. We are not talking about moving "any of the heavier components in the room". We are talking about moving small body parts shredded by the plane crashes. So this objections doesn't even address the issue

2. I showed you that the average velocity for ALL the 13,000+ cubic meters of air throughout the entire floor will be >35 m/s. A small, hend-held hair drier at 5 meters distance will cause only very low air velocities, so the comparison is silly and stupid.
You better think of a hair drier that is 207 feet across and can blow 13,000+ cubic meters of air per second.


Truthes always fail to grasp the enormous scale of the masses and velocities involved in the WTC events. If they were able to grasp them, they would not be truthers.

Truthers never understand physics. If they did, they wouldn't be truthers. This applies particularly to Physics teachers and PhDs like David Chandler, Crockett Grabbe or David Griscom. So you are in good company.


What you write is FALSE. Apples and oranges.

The "safety factor" is for forces - the actual load on structural elements is a force, and they could bear something like 3-5 that load/force without yielding.

Force is not the same as energy. Do you understand that? So it is silly to apply a safety factor for force capacity to some available enegergy.

Is our debate bothering you?

Remember, this thread is about "1120 missing bodies", and your and my exchange more specifically about those small parts of human remains that were found at some distance around the towers, such as on roofs of neighboring buildings.


So far we have agreed that the plane crashes would generate a lot of such shredded body parts, and we have agreed that most of those body parts shredded by the plane crashes would still be inside the crash floor just before the onset of collapse.

You have claimed that the collapse would be to slow to generate strong air currents to blow such small parts far, and have claimed, without substantiating argument, that the air currents generated by collapsing floors could push body fragments only like 10 or 20 meters beyond the perimeter walls.

I showed you a detailed calculation supporting a contention that air currents would on average be much stronger than you seem to suppose. You countered this with two silly objects - one that doesn't even apply to what we are discussing (movement of small body fragments), and one that is grossly ignorant of the scale of mass and motion involved.

Please try to pick up the discussion at that point

 

[beachnut]

yes, first the potential energy is used to speed it up, and then the "speed energy", i.e. kinetic energy, is used to break the building up.

No the potential energy is not used to speed it up, it is turned to kinetic energy which did all the stuff you can't being to comprehend because you don't do physics.

So in real life you never see something falling with, and turning to dust without loosing speed/acceleration when it hit's something.

This makes no sense, since you are using the silly physics you make up to go with your idiotic inside job by PNAC fantasy.

The hitting stuff can be explained by transfer of momentum, and the collapse does not slow because it is all being accelerated by g. When objects collide, they continue to go at the new speed according to the momentum transfer, and this is why the overall speed of collapse was slower than G. How can you loose acceleration, did g go away during the impacts? The speed did slow down at each impacting floor, but continued falling at the new speed and accelerating due to gravity.

Nazi Laws: NDAA 2012/2013 - US citizens can now be snapped, imprisoned for life and never prosecuted, never let go, they just have to say you had something to do with the "terrorists". This is what all Totalitarian regimes use to shut up dissidents/whistleblowers/assets who know too much.

Do you have ties with terrorists? You are apologizing for them by blaming PNAC for 911. Snapped?
Are you a whistle-blower? LOL, you are spreading lies about 911, spreading fantasy because you don't do physics. You can't be put away for life, you can't do physics let alone take action to do much more.
What action are you taking to prevent the indefinite detention of American citizens. Are you a US citizen?
Obama is only using the bill to put away birthers, which is part of the education bill too, aimed to raise the IQ of a nation. Next is truthers.
Do you pay USA taxes? Are you a citizen? Why do you apologize for terrorists by blaming PNAC?

I proved your physics are wrong, you are done. There is more than enough energy to make 1300 people gone. Obliterated. E=mgh, the WTC collapse more energy than 260 2,000 pound bombs; have you seen a 2,000 pound bomb? Too big?
Got physics?

 

[Wolrab]

Originally Posted by Wolrab
Reading the OP I had a gut feeling that he was right, but it was just gas prior to a wet, stinky fart.

I ALMOST blew soda all over my keyboard and monitor.....

It does capture the spirit and intent of the thread quite thoroughly.

 

[dafydd]

yes, first the potential energy is used to speed it up, and then the "speed energy", i.e. kinetic energy, is used to break the building up.

So in real life you never see something falling with, and turning to dust without loosing speed/acceleration when it hit's something.

Nazi Laws: NDAA 2012/2013 - US citizens can now be snapped, imprisoned for life and never prosecuted, never let go, they just have to say you had something to do with the "terrorists". This is what all Totalitarian regimes use to shut up dissidents/whistleblowers/assets who know too much.

Hit's?

 

[Jbui]

Hit's?

yes...I'm not always paying attention to my spelling...but I'm very happy that Debunkers need to make a topic of my spelling, or call me names etc...it just proves you don't have much arguments left.

 

[DGM]

yes...I'm not always paying attention to my spelling...but I'm very happy that Debunkers need to make a topic of my spelling, or call me names etc...it just proves you don't have much arguments left.

When are you going to produce an argument? So far you have nothing. We're dragging this on so everyone can see this. Sorry this is not obvious to you.

 

[Jbui]

Jbui, you again seem to have missed some replies:





Is our debate bothering you?

Remember, this thread is about "1120 missing bodies", and your and my exchange more specifically about those small parts of human remains that were found at some distance around the towers, such as on roofs of neighboring buildings.


So far we have agreed that the plane crashes would generate a lot of such shredded body parts, and we have agreed that most of those body parts shredded by the plane crashes would still be inside the crash floor just before the onset of collapse.

You have claimed that the collapse would be to slow to generate strong air currents to blow such small parts far, and have claimed, without substantiating argument, that the air currents generated by collapsing floors could push body fragments only like 10 or 20 meters beyond the perimeter walls.

I showed you a detailed calculation supporting a contention that air currents would on average be much stronger than you seem to suppose. You countered this with two silly objects - one that doesn't even apply to what we are discussing (movement of small body fragments), and one that is grossly ignorant of the scale of mass and motion involved.

Please try to pick up the discussion at that point

If you look at any real life example of air puffs, you will notice two things:
1. quick puff of air does not blow accelerate objects to same speed as the air blows, except dust/tiny light particles. Try to move a steak or a bone with e.g. compressed air.
2. the puff of air itself stops after few meters - watch e.g. plumes from Verinages - they are good examples of gravity driven collapse, see how far the dust blows and how much(how thck) there is dust. Naturally there are no heavier objects flying anywhere, since there are no explosives used.

 

[DGM]

So what is it Jbui?

Un-seen explosives? Death rays? Everything was planted?

Don't people like me suck when we ask you to tell us what happened? We're not debunking you, you haven't even presented anything.

You know it's a sign of respect when people ask what you think? It becomes obvious very quickly when you can even answer this question, that others are actually doing the thinking for you, and you're too lazy to ask them for the answers. Not a good place for you, I'm afraid.

 

[dafydd]

yes...I'm not always paying attention to my spelling...but I'm very happy that Debunkers need to make a topic of my spelling, or call me names etc...it just proves you don't have much arguments left.

Where did you study physics and engineering? Please furnish me with your full theory regarding the events of 911. Be the first truther here to do that.

 

[Oystein]

If you look at any real life example of air puffs, you will notice two things:
1. quick puff of air does not blow accelerate objects to same speed as the air blows, except dust/tiny light particles. Try to move a steak or a bone with e.g. compressed air.

This is true, but for the very same reason, the following also applies to dust/tiny light particles:

2. the puff of air itself stops after few meters - watch e.g. plumes from Verinages - they are good examples of gravity driven collapse, see how far the dust blows and how much(how thck) there is dust. Naturally there are no heavier objects flying anywhere, since there are no explosives used.

Naturally, there are no heavier objects flying anywhere, because they removed all the movable building contents before the demolition was triggered, so that none would fly around.

[qimg]http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/383/033/383033517_640.jpg[/qimg]

This building is a lot smaller, with much much less air to be ejected. The depth is hardly more than 15 meters, instead of 63 at the WTC, so roughly speaking, air gets ejected at only 1/4 of the speed as happened in NYC.

And still, rapid air currents eventually spill dust over the roofs of adjacent buildings. You see, your screenshot was taken early in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GNhEpHfgfI

 

[NoahFence]

If you look at any real life example of air puffs, you will notice two things:
1. quick puff of air does not blow accelerate objects to same speed as the air blows, except dust/tiny light particles. Try to move a steak or a bone with e.g. compressed air.
2. the puff of air itself stops after few meters - watch e.g. plumes from Verinages - they are good examples of gravity driven collapse, see how far the dust blows and how much(how thck) there is dust. Naturally there are no heavier objects flying anywhere, since there are no explosives used.
[qimg]http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/383/033/383033517_640.jpg[/qimg]

Hate to burst your cute little bubble, but there are great pains taken to ensure the absolute minimum amount of "objects" are present in a controlled demolition. On 9/11, the terrorists who took down the towers didn't take the time to remove anything. Do you think that may have anything to do with the lack of "accelerate objects"
(?)

 

[000063]

No, actually. The absence of broken concrete floors or even sizable chunks (i.e., larger than fist size) in the debris pile suggests that most of the concrete was pulverized. Are you trying to rebunk something that has been common knowledge since the very event?

Many comments at the time noted the absence of large chunks of concrete, such as this article from Waste Age in November of that year:

Most of the concrete from the WTC site was pulverized into dust in the Sept. 11 attacks.

If you have evidence to the contrary, by all means share it. You've only had about 11 years to do so.

And truthers have had how long to come up with a comprehensive, sensible theory?

Ya think maybe they trucked it in afterwards to stage photos, to cover up that all the concrete was Pulverized In Mid-Air?

Why, in your Expert Opinion, was all the concrete pulverized? Was it necessary to the Controlled Demolition, or was it inadvertent? Maybe, the Conspiracy, not having tested a previously unknown and unused Silent Super Hi-Explosive, underestimated its incredible power? Or was it perhaps gratuitous, an "in your face" kind of thing done to taunt the truthers who the Conspiracy knew would be investigating afterward?

I believe I asked him once how They managed to reliably identify and spirit the incriminating evidence in the debris away. Ergo never responded.

And now, of course, he's spinning wheels trying to draw the discussion out.

In the picture we see WTC dust after rain, ...

We can actually tell, quite easily, when you're pulling excuses out of thin air.

Please read DGM's comment that I quoted. You don't seem to understand what is being discussed.

You say that a lot. Never with an explanation as to how you reached that conclusion, oddly enough.

When the big building was way up high it was full of air.

But when it was way down low it was empty.

Where did the air go?

Where is the air?...

Can you find it in a chair?

Can you find it in the street?

Basic physics; really neat!

We've explained it in great detail. Your utter failure to understand is your problem, but we keep going because it's rather amusing.

It's an odd thing; I am really, really good at getting ideologues to block me, both on here and other sites, generally by pointing out the holes in their arguments they hope I won't notice. It's not even deliberate.

There are two major flaws in your theory that you don't take in to account:
1. if roof collapses, the air is surely blown out. But does it move any of the heavier components in the room? Imagine the roof falling on your head. Does every object including yourself blow out of the window before getting pinned by the roof. Surely all the air and light particles like dust and paper might fly out of the window. But nothing solid.

Depends on the amount of air pressure. Bodies crushed to bits would not be "heavier components".

2.Take a hairdryer, put it in full power, put on the table, and walk 5 meters away from it and place some object comparable to a human bone there. Does the hair dryers airpressure move that object? No. You can barely feel the airpressure after few meters.

So one puff of air does not move objects and neither does it have any effect after few meters. We can see this with the towers - nothing solid flies from the impact floors and the puff of smoke travels only few meters.

We can all tell you can't understand Oys' big, scary numbers and are trying to hide the fact.

If you look at any real life example of air puffs, you will notice two things:
1. quick puff of air does not blow accelerate objects to same speed as the air blows, except dust/tiny light particles. Try to move a steak or a bone with e.g. compressed air.
2. the puff of air itself stops after few meters - watch e.g. plumes from Verinages - they are good examples of gravity driven collapse, see how far the dust blows and how much(how thck) there is dust. Naturally there are no heavier objects flying anywhere, since there are no explosives used.
[qimg]http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/383/033/383033517_640.jpg[/qimg]

You're comparing a CD of a dozen stories or so of emptied building with the air compression which would be produced by a fire and impact collapse of a massive, occupied 110 story skyscraper.

And failing.

 

[Jbui]

Hate to burst your cute little bubble, but there are great pains taken to ensure the absolute minimum amount of "objects" are present in a controlled demolition. On 9/11, the terrorists who took down the towers didn't take the time to remove anything. Do you think that may have anything to do with the lack of "accelerate objects"
(?)

Noone removed the walls on either building, on the other they flew straight horizontally with explosive speed, on the other they dropped straight down with constant speed(there was acceleration only in the pulling phase).

On the other most of the concrete flew in thick cloud and filled the ground in more than one km radius, on the other thin cloud puffed during the demo, and 90% of the concrete ended on the footprint of the building.

One was done with gravity, ...and now you guys need to say, even though these two incidents had nothing in common, that the other was also gravity. Because you guys are never wrong about anything