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The Australian "custody sisters"

Charlie Wilkes

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Charlie Wilkes
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
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4,177
I have been following this story ever since I saw this uplifting video...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...king-legal-fight-to-italy-20121003-26zsg.html

These kids made another stand at the airport, and two of them had to be hauled off a commercial flight.

Why didn't they just shoot them all with tranquilizer darts? It would have been a lot easier.

Their mother and her supporters have a page on Facebook, and I notice they just updated the cover photo with a collage of post cards in which the girls long to be back in Australia...

https://www.facebook.com/BringThe4SistersHomeDestinationAustralia

But Daddy won in court, so suck it up kids.

Now I see the authorities, in a reflection of their deep concern for the welfare of children, are going to file charges against a newspaper for printing pictures of these kids:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-custody-dispute-coverage-20130123-2d6kz.html

What do people in Australia think of this situation?
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
I have been following this story ever since I saw this uplifting video...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...king-legal-fight-to-italy-20121003-26zsg.html

These kids made another stand at the airport, and two of them had to be hauled off a commercial flight.

Why didn't they just shoot them all with tranquilizer darts? It would have been a lot easier.

Their mother and her supporters have a page on Facebook, and I notice they just updated the cover photo with a collage of post cards in which the girls long to be back in Australia...

https://www.facebook.com/BringThe4SistersHomeDestinationAustralia

But Daddy won in court, so suck it up kids.

Now I see the authorities, in a reflection of their deep concern for the welfare of children, are going to file charges against a newspaper for printing pictures of these kids:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-custody-dispute-coverage-20130123-2d6kz.html

What do people in Australia think of this situation?
Click to expand...


I thought it was a difficult situation made worse by the mother and the media coverage. There is more here on the law surrounding the case and the outcome.
 
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The media were absolutely disgusting with this story. Especially since they were roped in by their mother's family to circumvent the legal system.

If you're interested, Media Watch had an episode covering the story. I don't know if you can watch the video on the page, but you can read the transcript.
 
My question in all of these things is not the legal system (too easy to manipulate) but what is best for the kids and (related) what will they do that I might support because of this when they get old enough to do it . (To make this clear as good glass, will the parent who won legally die over it eventually because of what and how it was done.). Don't know, but given the circs that could happen here.
 
The problem is that the law is that when you have the kids in one country, you can't secretly take them to another country.

A native Dutch woman had a child to an Australian man in Australia. They separated. She just disappeared one day, and he had no idea where she took the child. He searched for years, and found they were secretly in Holland under assumed identities. He went to court, and won the right to get the child back. Now, this Australian man won, because he had the law on his side.

The problem is, that's exactly the same law being used the girls to the country that they were born in. If the mother had chosen to stay in Italy, where they were born, access rights could have been negotiated between the two parents.

It's a difficult problem, and there is no solution that is going to make everyone happy.
 
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Charlie Wilkes said:
I have been following this story ever since I saw this uplifting video...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...king-legal-fight-to-italy-20121003-26zsg.html

These kids made another stand at the airport, and two of them had to be hauled off a commercial flight.

Why didn't they just shoot them all with tranquilizer darts? It would have been a lot easier.

Their mother and her supporters have a page on Facebook, and I notice they just updated the cover photo with a collage of post cards in which the girls long to be back in Australia...

https://www.facebook.com/BringThe4SistersHomeDestinationAustralia

But Daddy won in court, so suck it up kids.

Now I see the authorities, in a reflection of their deep concern for the welfare of children, are going to file charges against a newspaper for printing pictures of these kids:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-custody-dispute-coverage-20130123-2d6kz.html

What do people in Australia think of this situation?
Click to expand...

Mother signed an agreement of joint custody
Mother said she was going into holiday with kids
Mother stayed away in Australian
Father asked under hagues agreement to have the kids brought back and custody decided in italy as per law
Mother lost and now custody is to be decided in italy.

Nothing wrong here. the mother should have waited for the custody judgement before going away, otherwise it is akin to international kidnapping.
 
I think most people in the media agree that kidnapping your kids should be legal or something.
 
That mother is a horrible woman. Using the kids to get back at the man she chose to marry and had 5 kids with. It's not the kids fault the mother made a bad choice of husband, or has buyer's remorse.

I knew kids growing up who had divorced parents like that, really screwed with their heads as each parent trieds to turn the kids against the other. But none of them were flown to the other side of the world in an attempt to steal them outright.
 
You can rule in law however you like, but you can't force your kids to love you. Are those girls, literally dragged kicking and screaming, going to appreciate the parent who made that happen? It's going to be a very cold, very rocky relationship for a few years until they're adults and can leave again forever. Is it worth it to win a legal battle but lose the relationship?
 
TragicMonkey said:
You can rule in law however you like, but you can't force your kids to love you. Are those girls, literally dragged kicking and screaming, going to appreciate the parent who made that happen? It's going to be a very cold, very rocky relationship for a few years until they're adults and can leave again forever. Is it worth it to win a legal battle but lose the relationship?
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Kids get dragged kicking and screaming to things they then enjoy all the time. When one parent starts kidnapping their kids it is already a messed up situation. I is just surprising to see so much support fir kidnapping.
 
TragicMonkey said:
You can rule in law however you like, but you can't force your kids to love you. Are those girls, literally dragged kicking and screaming, going to appreciate the parent who made that happen? It's going to be a very cold, very rocky relationship for a few years until they're adults and can leave again forever. Is it worth it to win a legal battle but lose the relationship?
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For all you know those girls were kicking and screaming because they were being taken from their boyfriends in Australia, not because they don't like the father.

Or maybe the mother has spent the last 2 years turning them against the father when he isn't there to defend himself.

Too many divorced parents see kids as just another weapon to hold over the heads of the former spouse to get revenge, and this woman certainly wasn't thinking about the interests of the kids when she brought them to Australia. She was thinking about herself, and how good it felt screwing over her ex.
 
WildCat said:
For all you know those girls were kicking and screaming because they were being taken from their boyfriends in Australia, not because they don't like the father.

Or maybe the mother has spent the last 2 years turning them against the father when he isn't there to defend himself.

Too many divorced parents see kids as just another weapon to hold over the heads of the former spouse to get revenge, and this woman certainly wasn't thinking about the interests of the kids when she brought them to Australia. She was thinking about herself, and how good it felt screwing over her ex.
Click to expand...

My point is that it doesn't matter to the children what the motivations were or the circumstances behind or the history involved. What they know is that they're being dragged away against their wills. Sometimes what's best for your kids isn't what's most just for you, in the eyes of the law or public opinion.

Would you rather your kid live an unhappy life with a good person or a happy life with a bad one?
 
TragicMonkey said:
My point is that it doesn't matter to the children what the motivations were or the circumstances behind or the history involved. What they know is that they're being dragged away against their wills. Sometimes what's best for your kids isn't what's most just for you, in the eyes of the law or public opinion.

Would you rather your kid live an unhappy life with a good person or a happy life with a bad one?
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You have no evidence whatsoever as to whether or not the father is a bad parent.

We do know, however, that the mother kidnaped the children and took them to the other side of the world in an attempt to punish the father. She wasn't thinking of the children or their interests when she did this, she was thinking only of herself. She's an evil, horrible woman.
 
WildCat said:
You have no evidence whatsoever as to whether or not the father is a bad parent.

We do know, however, that the mother kidnaped the children and took them to the other side of the world in an attempt to punish the father. She wasn't thinking of the children or their interests when she did this, she was thinking only of herself. She's an evil, horrible woman.
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Sigh. I'll try again: it doesn't matter to the children which one, if either, is "good" or "bad". What matters to them is which one they want to be with. You may be the sort of person who would insist they be miserable because you have judged one parent worthy and the other "evil and horrible". I wouldn't. I'd leave the kids with whichever parent they wanted to stay with. Even if they pick the "bad" one.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Sigh. I'll try again: it doesn't matter to the children which one, if either, is "good" or "bad". What matters to them is which one they want to be with. You may be the sort of person who would insist they be miserable because you have judged one parent worthy and the other "evil and horrible". I wouldn't. I'd leave the kids with whichever parent they wanted to stay with. Even if they pick the "bad" one.
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You have no idea which parent they want to stay with. And you don;t get to kidnap your kid and take them to a foreign country thousands of miles away because you don't want to share custody. And who knows what this horrible woman was doing to try to turn the kids against their father during the last 2 years. This is certainly mot in their best interests, I saw mothers do this to their kids when I was growing up. Constantly telling them the father was a bastard, a liar, a good for nothing low-life in an attempt to turn them against the father.

People like that should never have kids in the first place, but unfortunately we don't force people to get parenting licenses.
 
Fascinating responses.

I suppose the fundamental question here is whether children are in any sense human beings, and the consensus is "no."
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Fascinating responses.

I suppose the fundamental question here is whether children are in any sense human beings, and the consensus is "no."
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Of course not, they're weapons to be used against your ex-spouse. And that's the important thing here, making your ex suffer. The kids are just insignificant collateral damage.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Fascinating responses.

I suppose the fundamental question here is whether children are in any sense human beings, and the consensus is "no."
Click to expand...

Not at all. Children don't get to decide what is best for them, why do you think we don't let them vote?

If someone kidnapped your kids and after two years they wanted to stay should the kidnapper get to keep the kids?
 
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