LDS

[SezMe]

Remember a few years back there was (a rumored?) Christian college that had students go on "hostile" web sites to argue for Jeebus? Is there a similar Mormon college that takes the same approach and skyrider44 is just doing his homework?

 

[pakeha]

Janadele, I don't think it was a good idea to edit this
"Actual LDS teachings, Scripture and Doctrine is the topic of this thread. It is not a "rave fest" for personal insults and declarations of agnostic / atheist beliefs. There are other threads and other sections of the Forum for such matters. "

out of your post
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9009974&postcount=4324

even after it was commented on and quoted in this post

...in what way is it insulting to ask you to explain why standard Egyptian funerary texts include (at least according to J.Smith's idiosyncratic and unique translation) Abraham's autographic diary?

You have yet to honestly address your claim that every person who is capable of actually reading hieroglyphics is "lying" if they do not accept J.Smith's demonstrably (I'll use a kind word)...mistaken..."translation".

Why does no-one use J.Smith's "dictionary" of hieroglyphics to translate Egyptian texts? Are all Egyptologists anti-mormon propagandists?

Janadele, why do you put your faith in a con-man?

 

[pakeha]

One more time. skyrider, this is a skeptics site. We exist, in large part, to expose lies and frauds. We are equal opportunity critics. We criticize Scientology, Catholicism, Muslims, Hindus, Presbyterians, psychics, tricksters, con artists, mountebanks, grifters, matchstick men, etc., etc..

It's not personal. We do this because we believe in a better world. One based on critical thinking, philosophy and science.

+1

Please read my questions again. I asked, in effect, if all the charges made against Joseph Smith and the Church are factually correct, why does it matter to you (presumably, you are an atheist). Does the Church threaten you in some way? Do you find it impossible to tolerate someone else's belief system, provided that it doesn't harm anyone?

You want to dwell on errors in the BoM. Why? You have already dismissed it, and you won't accept anything LDS scholars say in its defense. So your motivation is what? To discredit the Church? To dishonor its members? To discount the tremendous amount of humanitarian work it does?



Did that "known conman" swindle you out of "zillions" of dollars?

I notice you want to keep the discussion to the BoM, skyrider.
Interesting, but evasive.
Why don't you want to talk about the dishonest nature of the BoA?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Smith did this after founding the LDS, so his followers would take their own 'burning in the bosom' as evidence Smith had been divinely inspired when he pulled this hoax.

Do you think it's legitimate to pull such a scam on the gullible?

 

[Craig4]

Opening Post of this LDS thread.

You didn't really believe you'd come in here with your factual inaccuracies and unsupported assertions and be left unchallenged did you?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Remember a few years back there was (a rumored?) Christian college that had students go on "hostile" web sites to argue for Jeebus? Is there a similar Mormon college that takes the same approach and skyrider44 is just doing his homework?

This kind of action may have some merit if the students are beforehand sufficiently versed in the apologetics to make the arguments and have a bit of blind zeal about them. However so far there doesn't appear to be enough courage of conviction or knowledge to engage on any of the common criticisms of the church.

If it's an assignment they have failed.

 

[Janadele]

I do have a question directly related to LDS teachings, however: How is it that the organization itself can't agree on whether Kolob is a star or a planet?

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Mentioned in Abraham 3.3

 

[Craig4]

"Fools mock, but they shall mourn"

Ah yes, the Christian Revenge Fantasy. Not invented by Mormons but certainly bought into by them. It's hollow of course like all fantasies but I guess they find it comforting.

It's amusing to see otherwise fine upstanding citizens get all wet in the mouth and the prospect of non-believers being tortured with fire for all eternity when of course they would never dream (most of them) of doing it themselves. I wonder, if their imaginary friend asked them to throw us in the fire to get into their heaven what they would do. I can think of several words to describe this sort of belief. Courageous would not be one of them.

 

[Agatha]

"Fools mock, but they shall mourn"

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool"

This is not a quotation war, but I guarantee that for every arrogant, self-serving quote you can find, I can find ones to match which call for humility, compassion, understanding, tolerance and love.

More Shakespeare: "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none". That is a maxim to live by, not the nastiness of calling people fools and predicting misery for others.

I think Skyrider must have me on ignore; I answered his/her questions more than once but reply came there none.

 

[Sideroxylon]

"Fools mock, but they shall mourn"

I could rely on you to illustrate my point for me, couldn't I.

Cheers for that, Janadele.

 

[pakeha]

"Fools mock, but they shall mourn"

Hi, Janadele.
Since when is questioning an open scam mockery?

 

[Akhenaten]

"Fools mock, but they shall mourn"

True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance.

- Re-Horakty Nepherkheperure Waenre Akhenaten​

Get some time up, latter day wankers wannabes plagiarists.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Your question is based on a debatable premise.

A premise that you introduced in your previous post.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You made the charge; the burden of proof is on you. Go ahead, give it your best shot. You might begin by proving that Joseph Smith made his living as a money digger.

How about the obvious fraud of the Book of Abraham?

 

[Slowvehicle]

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Mentioned in Abraham 3.3

So, which is it: "star" or "planet", and why would either be mentioned in standard Egyptian funerary texts; texts in which no one else has ever found any mention of either?

 

[Akhenaten]

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Mentioned in Abraham 3.3

Just completely made up, in other words.

Smith coudn't translate a modern Egyptian phone book, let alone an extract from the Book of Going Forth by Day.

Which bit of "blatant, self-serving fraud" is giving you trouble, Janadele?


alternatively . . .


Help us out here, in our ignorance.

What do the hieroglyphs for "Kolob" look like?

 

[Foster Zygote]

You believe, therefore, that destroying people's faith is commendable--because that, in essence, is what you're saying.

Is that what is happening? Is confronting evidence destroying your faith? Yet again, I must remind you that you came to this thread knowing that the topic of discussion is the veracity of Mormon claims. You haven't been accosted in public, interrupted during a religious ceremony, or bothered by a knock at the door. This thread was stared by a Mormon as an invitation to share our opinions on Mormonism. If those opinions are so distressing to you then you are free to leave.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed portion germane to split thread

You suppose that you are engaged in a crusade to make the world a better place.

No, the Crusades were an assertion of power through violence. This forum is a place dedicated to the idea that the world can be bettered if we are all free to openly discuss ideas.

I am not at all sure that destroying humankind's faith is a credible way to achieve that goal.

All we've done is offer evidence. If that destroys your faith, was it really worth having in the first place?

Moreover, I'm virtually certain that you can't prove it.

Prove what, that Mormonism does not represent reality? I think genetic research alone has pretty much ruled out the Book of Mormon as any sort of accurate history.

 

[Agatha]

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Mentioned in Abraham 3.3

That's weird, that post originally said "Fools mock, but they shall mourn." Now it reads as above.

Is it not a little dishonest to completely change a post, especially after it has been responded to?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Such profundity.

Such evasion.

 

[Mashuna]

'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Mentioned in Abraham 3.3

I've always suspected that it was a made-up load of old bolok.

 

[Akhenaten]

That's weird, that post originally said "Fools mock, but they shall mourn." Now it reads as above.

Is it not a little dishonest to completely change a post, especially after it has been responded to?

Dishonest is one thing, but I think the word describing the forlorn hope of the poster who thinks she'll get away with it is even more condemnatory.