LDS

[Akhenaten]

Not just wrong, but lying, according to her own words. And not just every Egyptologist, but every geneticist, anthropologist, linguist, archaeologist, and historian who ever directly or indirectly contradicted anything ever claimed by Mormon mythology.

Try to keep to what has actually been posted rather than incorrectly commenting and embellishing. "Are lying when they say" being the key words responded to of the following:

Are you saying that the entirety of the Egyptologists are lying when they say what Smith passed off as a 'translation' bears no resemblance to the truth?

What the hell are you talking about?

Your resonse to the 'key words' in Pakeha's question above was "Of course", which is exactly the point that Foster Zygote is making.

You agreed that you believe Egyptologists to be lying when they claim that Smith wouldn't know his ankh from his *******. As bizarre as this is, there's no denying that it's the position that you claimed to hold.

Just as everything you've posted here proclaims your belief that every geneticist, anthropologist, linguist, archaeologist, and historian who points out Smith's obvious factual errors is similarly lying.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

To Egyptologists the falsehood of Smith's interpretations of what they know to be common funeral papyri would not be any clearer had he been working from the assembly instructions for a piece of flat-pack furniture written in Swedish.

You don't get to make your own facts about the world without abandoning respect for truth.

 

[Astreja]

I find it fascinating that this meandering thread, which not all that many pages ago was discussing discrepancies between the BoM and the North American archeological record, appears to be headed for a showdown of epic proportions.

In this corner: Joltin' Joe Smith, his corner Moroni, and possibly a shiny gold foreign object secreted in his shorts.

And in the opposing corner: "Can't Keep a Good God Down" Osiris Green, and definitely a shiny gold *ahem* in His shorts.

In all seriousness, this is a no-contest battle. Egypt has been studied quite thoroughly, and it does appear that Joseph Smith imagined-up his interpretation of the papyrus rather than possessing actual knowledge of the material. It's now far too late to interrogate Mr. Smith as to his motives, but two things spring to mind here:

1. When he wrote his translation, he may have believed in all earnest that no one else on Earth possessed knowledge of what the papyrus actually signified, and believed that such knowledge would not be forthcoming at any time in the foreseeable future. E. A. Wallis Budge, for instance, wasn't even born at the time of Smith's death.
2. As the translation apparently is wrong, what else did Smith get wrong? The entirety of the BoM, perhaps?

 

[AdMan]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

Amazing. Is this also what the actual LDS church states? What a crock of ****.

 

[Janadele]

A reminder that the topic of THIS thread is LDS, not "anti-Mormon" or "whatever". Those who have no interest in the actual Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should state their beliefs in a more appropriate thread.

 

[SezMe]

It's now far too late to interrogate Mr. Smith as to his motives...

This is one of those rare circumstances where James Van Praagh could really be of service.

 

[AdMan]

A reminder that the topic of THIS thread is LDS, not "anti-Mormon" or "whatever". Those who have no interest in the actual Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should state their beliefs in a more appropriate thread.

A reminder: you don't run this forum. The topic of LDS can be discussed in a positive or critical light, based on the subject of the thread.

 

[Sideroxylon]

A reminder that the topic of THIS thread is LDS, not "anti-Mormon" or "whatever". Those who have no interest in the actual Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should state their beliefs in a more appropriate thread.

So any criticism of Mormonism is off topic? Good luck with that.

Smith's papyri translations must be rather embarrassing to talk about when all you can say in the face of the obvious misrepresentation of ancient Egyptian culture and language is "but it was divine revelation!"

 

[Akhenaten]

A reminder that the topic of THIS thread is LDS, not "anti-Mormon" or "whatever".

A reminder that the LDS is based on the deceptions and delusions of someone who couldn't tell the truth even if he knew it, and that pointing this out in response to the vapid preaching of those who believe otherwise is perfectly on topic.

Those who have no interest in the actual Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should state their beliefs in a more appropriate thread.

Apart from the fact that this is already the most appropriate thread, when were you elevated to the position of authority enabling you instruct people where they should or should not be posting?

 

[Shalamar]

A reminder that the topic of THIS thread is LDS, not "anti-Mormon" or "whatever". Those who have no interest in the actual Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should state their beliefs in a more appropriate thread.

Very well.

Since translations of differing languages can be done once one has a place to start, If the Egyptian piece became one of your holy books, what other Egyptian hieroglyphs have Mormon scholars translated, based on the Book of Abraham?

 

[Slowvehicle]

I find it fascinating that this meandering thread, which not all that many pages ago was discussing discrepancies between the BoM and the North American archeological record, appears to be headed for a showdown of epic proportions.

In this corner: Joltin' Joe Smith, his corner Moroni, and possibly a shiny gold foreign object secreted in his shorts.

And in the opposing corner: "Can't Keep a Good God Down" Osiris Green, and definitely a shiny gold *ahem* in His shorts.

In all seriousness, this is a no-contest battle. Egypt has been studied quite thoroughly, and it does appear that Joseph Smith imagined-up his interpretation of the papyrus rather than possessing actual knowledge of the material. It's now far too late to interrogate Mr. Smith as to his motives, but two things spring to mind here:

1. When he wrote his translation, he may have believed in all earnest that no one else on Earth possessed knowledge of what the papyrus actually signified, and believed that such knowledge would not be forthcoming at any time in the foreseeable future. E. A. Wallis Budge, for instance, wasn't even born at the time of Smith's death.
2. As the translation apparently is wrong, what else did Smith get wrong? The entirety of the BoM, perhaps?

¡Una mucha lucha de Sabado Gigante! ¡Traigase su cámera!

 

[Slowvehicle]

A reminder that the topic of THIS thread is LDS, not "anti-Mormon" or "whatever". Those who have no interest in the actual Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should state their beliefs in a more appropriate thread.

How...charitable...that your knee-jerk response to the vast array of scholars who have presented evidence from multiple disciplines (Egyptology, archaeology, history, anthropology, genetics, metallurgy, agriculture, animal husbandry, and psychology, to name but a few) that the BoA is not in any way a "translation" of the Book of Breathing fragment reproduced in the illustrations, but a fraudulent fiction; is that they are, not mistaken, but "lying"...
Do you realize how telling that defensive reaction is?

 

[Sideroxylon]

The idea situation for Mormons would be:

- The papyri being unique and not a commonly found funeral document.
- That Smith had not provided absurd interpretations of this now well understood document.
- The bits that were anomalous not found to be located in parts of the papyri that had evidently been destroyed before they reached Smith.
- His translations and translation notes were congruent with firm understandings of ancient Egyptian with their origins in the Rosetta stone.
- That the hieroglyphs on the papyri could be read by anyone working from such well established understandings to see clear correlation with Smith's interpretation.
- That the scientific dating of the papyri that Smith claimed to be written in the hand of Abraham, fit with Biblical ideas about when he was supposed to have lived.

As we find ourselves so distant from such an ideal, why should we conclude they are real. It is unreasonable to do so.

 

[abaddon]

A reminder that the topic of THIS thread is LDS, not "anti-Mormon" or "whatever". Those who have no interest in the actual Doctrines and Teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should state their beliefs in a more appropriate thread.

We are discussing those. You are not.

 

[Janadele]

... but a fraudulent fiction; is that they are, not mistaken, but "lying"...

Once again,try to keep to what has actually been posted, rather than incorrectly commenting and embellishing. A question was asked by pakeha:

Are you saying that the entirety of the Egyptologists are lying when they say what Smith passed off as a 'translation' bears no resemblance to the truth?

"Of course" was the answer given to the question as framed. The question of "were they mistaken" was not asked.

 

[abaddon]

Once again,try to keep to what has actually been posted, rather than incorrectly commenting and embellishing. A question was asked by pakeha:
"Of course" was the answer given to the question as framed. The question of "were they mistaken" was not asked.

No problem, why did you post this saccarine crapulence?

They should instead have spent their time listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5id63Twddk&feature=player_embedded

BYU Broadcasting video production of the title track of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and Orchestra at Temple Square's new album "Praise to the Man." The album is a tribute to the prophet Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

[Pixel42]

"Of course" was the answer given to the question as framed. The question of "were they mistaken" was not asked.

If you think they might be mistaken rather than deliberately lying then the answer to the question "are they lying?" is not "Of course" but something like "Not necessarily, they could just be mistaken".

If you think experts are mistaken about an issue which is well within their field of expertise then you need to justify that opinion. And no, "what I believe to be sacred scripture says they are" is not adequate justification.

 

[asydhouse]

That's just pathetic weasel word distraction!

When you answer "of course" to a question that asks "Are you saying that the entirety of the Egyptologists are lying", then you are saying you believe they are telling lies! Which means you don't accept their mistakes as mistakes (if they were mistaken, which they manifestly are not mistaken), so regardless of any mention of mistakes by anyone, you are saying they are liars!

How does your weaselling about the words change that?

Once again you demonstrate that you don't know how to think... either that or you are simply obfuscating in order to distract from the meaninglessness of everything you say.

 

[zooterkin]

Will Wilbur's lady friend be putting in an appearance, I wonder? Wilma? Wilhelmina?

 

[pakeha]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

Thanks for answering, Janadele.
Just to be clear, you ARE saying Egyptologists are lying when they say Smith's Book of Abraham bear no resemblance to the papyrii he claimed to translate?

And this is official LDS policy?

To Egyptologists the falsehood of Smith's interpretations of what they know to be common funeral papyri would not be any clearer had he been working from the assembly instructions for a piece of flat-pack furniture written in Swedish. ...

I beg to differ, O Sideroxylon of the lovely avatar, as I've never had any difficulty with those assembly instructions.
Still, not even the shop assistants believe when I tell them this as they try to steer me gently away from the more complex items.

Their cloudberry jam is to die for!
And the cardamon crisp rolls!

But away from food (for the moment) and back to AE hieroglyphs.
The fascination with hieroglyphs and misinterpreting them for illegitimate reasons has been around for a long time:

First of four parts.