LDS

[Craig4]

They should instead have spent their time listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5id63Twddk&feature=player_embedded

BYU Broadcasting video production of the title track of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and Orchestra at Temple Square's new album "Praise to the Man." The album is a tribute to the prophet Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I travel to Rome not infrequently and appreciate the art of the ancient sites. That doesn't mean I condone gladiatorial human sacrifice. I'm capable of appreciating Mormon art while still finding the founders of the religion to be beneath contempt and inferior to me morally.

 

[deaman]

LOL all anti Mormon sites... which I would never read.

Why? Are you afraid of finding the truth?

 

[deaman]

Not at all.

My time is too valuable to waste on misrepresentations and lying propaganda.

Then you had better stop reading the bible and the mormon scriptures.

Janadele, you are your own scripture.

 

[RandFan]

Smith's Book of Abraham translation is like the martial arts guy--oops. But I don't think it's necessarily proof that he was running a deliberate scam and never on any level fooling himself.

Human behavior and psychology is a hobby of mine also. I don't know how you make up chapter after chapter of a book and claim you have gold plates and not be willfully perpetrating a con. We can lie to ourselves, we can be in denial, but to believe a story with such detail that includes golden plates isn't simply denial. It's possible Smith was suffering some mental affliction and the plates were a confabulation but I see nothing in his behavior that is consistent with that.

 

[Empress]

They should instead have spent their time listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5id63Twddk&feature=player_embedded

BYU Broadcasting video production of the title track of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and Orchestra at Temple Square's new album "Praise to the Man." The album is a tribute to the prophet Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

How the heck would that help anyone believe in your BoA? I've heard enough of the Mormon Tab accompanied by their hideous organ to choke an overgrown elephant. I'm still an atheist, I still think JS was a lying conman, and I still think your church is racist, sexist, and homophobic.

Music won't going to change the minds of anyone here. Evidence will. Got any?

 

[pakeha]

Not at all.

My time is too valuable to waste on misrepresentations and lying propaganda.

Are you saying that the entirety of the Egyptologists are lying when they say what Smith passed off as a 'translation' bears no resemblance to the truth?

One can learn so much from neutral sites. Up until 1927, the LDS Church had an oath of vengeance requiring participants to agree to be bound by the following oath:

"You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation."​

I guess they finally figured out Joseph Smith have been dead for some time, and maybe it was time to just let it go....

Interesting.
I daresay Conan Doyle's representation of Mormonism wasn't so far off the mark, was it?

I think where we're disagreeing (not by much) is the definition of "wilful."

Sure, it's sufficient to dismiss everything Smith did with "LOLscam" and move on, if one's interests lie elsewhere, but I enjoy exploring the nuances of human belief and behavior. Obviously not everyone does, so the following may seem pointless to folks who just want the Cliff Notes version ("It's a scam, don't believe it"). ...[respectfully snipped for space]...

Smith's Book of Abraham translation is like the martial arts guy--oops. But I don't think it's necessarily proof that he was running a deliberate scam and never on any level fooling himself.

So according to you he wasn't running a deliberate scam nor was he fooling himself?

Are you saying he really was divinely inspired to write the balderdash he foisted as a translation?

Or are you saying the man was insane when he wrote:

Smith stated:

... with W.W. Phelps and Oliver Cowdery as scribes, I commenced the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt, etc. — a more full account of which will appear in its place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them.[4][/I]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham...

There really aren't very many options here for Smith, Pup.
Scammer, credulous fool or insane.
Do you see any other?

 

[Janadele]

Are you saying that the entirety of the Egyptologists are lying when they say what Smith passed off as a 'translation' bears no resemblance to the truth?

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

...no matter what, right?

Now: about those NEUTRAL sources?

 

[RandFan]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

Unreasonable = choosing belief over facts.

 

[Empress]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

This post is just embarrassing.

 

[Mark6]

Scammer, credulous fool or insane.
Do you see any other?

I go with "scammer".

This post is just embarrassing.

Obviously, Janadele is not embarrassed. She is utterly convinced of Smith's -- and her own, -- infallibility. Yes, brain in original packaging, never used.

 

[deaman]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

That is what you have been taught to believe, but it just is not true.

 

[Shalamar]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

So every egyptologist everywhere is wrong regarding their entire field of study?

 

[Foster Zygote]

So every egyptologist everywhere is wrong regarding their entire field of study?

Not just wrong, but lying, according to her own words. And not just every Egyptologist, but every geneticist, anthropologist, linguist, archaeologist, and historian who ever directly or indirectly contradicted anything ever claimed by Mormon mythology.

I'm reminded of a biology professor of mine who told me about his second grade daughter's classmates who weren't allowed to attend a field trip to a dinosaur dig when they were living in Montana. The reason given was that their parents were convinced that fossils were nothing more than rock carvings fabricated by evil scientists to lure people away from Jesus.

 

[joobz]

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

I understand you believe this and I do not wish to denigrate your sincerity.
But from an outside perspective, it sounds just like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r0I80hWOFS8#t=86s

 

[Astreja]

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

I don't think so. I really don't think so.

As far as I'm concerned, "the Lord God and creator of this earth" is fictional until I meet it in person in the physical world. I find the Egyptologists quite credible, but Joseph Smith not at all.

 

[SezMe]

This post is just embarrassing.

Exactamento.

 

[Akhenaten]

Are you saying that the entirety of the Egyptologists are lying when they say what Smith passed off as a 'translation' bears no resemblance to the truth?

Of course.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

It appears that while the rest of Christianity is being dragged (albeit kicking and screaming) into the 21st century, Mormonism is going its own way and rushing headlong back into the Bronze Age.

 

[Janadele]

Not just wrong, but lying, according to her own words. And not just every Egyptologist, but every geneticist, anthropologist, linguist, archaeologist, and historian who ever directly or indirectly contradicted anything ever claimed by Mormon mythology.

Try to keep to what has actually been posted rather than incorrectly commenting and embellishing. "Are lying when they say" being the key words responded to of the following:

Are you saying that the entirety of the Egyptologists are lying when they say what Smith passed off as a 'translation' bears no resemblance to the truth?

 

[SezMe]

Try to keep to what has actually been posted rather than incorrectly commenting and embellishing.

Sure. Here's what has been said here.

A Prophet, Seer and Revelator, as was Joseph Smith, has far superior knowledge and inspiration... plus Revelation, from the Lord God and creator of this earth. His words are the truth.

That is self-inoculating against embellishment.