Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[d4m10n]

Atheism Plus

You asked for communities, and i gave you two.
Now you are shifting the goal posts, with reference to moderation.

I thought the 'i will buy your argument' was only rhetorical, and it is indeed.

We disagree, no problem.

You honesty think modded threads are representative of the A+ community? Try the forums or the subreddit or even the Twitter list.

 

[alcorfr]

You honesty think modded threads are representative of the A+ community? Try the forums or the subreddit or even the Twitter list.

I don't follow them, but i quickly reviewed the subreddit.
Can you provide evidence this community is anti-white-males, as to '****' on them ?

 

[Mr. Scott]

Accused 'Witch' Kepari Leniata Burned Alive By Mob In Papua New Guinea

...but we can ignore it because these are brown people. The real enemies are rich old white male atheists, according to A+ dogma.

 

[alcorfr]

...but we can ignore it because these are brown people. The real enemies are rich old white male atheists, according to A+ dogma.

The dogma that A+ is anti white male is well endorsed here.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Re: Atheism Plus

The dogma that A+ is anti white male is well endorsed here.

It was founded as secular humanism with out the old white men(except PZ). So right from the outset it defined itself in oposition to old white men.

 

[rustypouch]

The dogma that A+ is anti white male is well endorsed here.

Dogma might be too harsh, but there is reason to believe A+ is anti white male.

Look at the list of banned members, at least the ones they put on there, and with justifications for the bans. Pointing out that not all men are rapists, and it's paranoid and insulting to consider them as such; questioning some aspects of feminism; expressing a view that men and women should be treated equally in courts; and "mansplaining" are reasons for getting banned.

It seems that if you don't go along with the narrative that everyone who's not a heterosexual white man is an oppressed victim, you're just not welcome there.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Person1: You can pre-order Pz Myers' book here. Publication & delivery set for mid-August. Now we need to get him back to DC for a signing.

Person2: I've had it on order for a year

Me: I've lost interest since he became an A+ toadie

A+ Numpty: Yeah..cause saying women should be treated equally is just a ****

You got woman-splained, Scrut. Nice going!

 

[RandFan]

The dogma that A+ is anti white male is well endorsed here.

I do not know to what degree that A+ is anti white male if at all. I know that their use of "privilege" is nonsense used to gain rhetorical advantage. To the extent that there is privilege it applies to a group and not individuals. You cannot falsify the idea that any single persons behavior is due to privilege. Trotting out privilege is as fallacious as attacking someones argument because they are a woman. It's also just as offensive and violates the principle of charity. It seeks to put any argument from the opponent in its worst possible light.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Atheism Plus

Have we found an A+ group that doesn't reflexively attack while males yet?

 

[Walter Ego]

Since '08 no less. Hey Mykeru, where you been all these years? Do you know rocko2466? Have you seen any of his A+ videos? Are you him?

The people you're asking about all post on the slymepit. Check out the open undead thread.

http://www.slymepit.com/

 

[Potentiated Synapse]

I do not know to what degree that A+ is anti white male if at all. I know that their use of "privilege" is nonsense used to gain rhetorical advantage. To the extent that there is privilege it applies to a group and not individuals. You cannot falsify the idea that any single persons behavior is due to privilege. Trotting out privilege is as fallacious as attacking someones argument because they are a woman. It's also just as offensive and violates the principle of charity. It seeks to put any argument from the opponent in its worst possible light.

Similarly their use of "trigger warnings" aren't to make anyone feel better, it is to further reinforce their self-victimization. It is also used as just another emotional weapon for attacking their critics. "He didn't put a trigger warning in his post cause he wants to psychologically damage us with his mansplaining and misogynistic ideas!"

Their idea of "skepticism" is placing feelings above rational thought. The ultimate winning argument in the A+ forums is "how dare you tell me how to FEEL!?"

What I probably find the most disturbing is their worship of weakness. Being a victim, weak willed, damaged, or what not is considering something to be admired. Standing up for what you think, challenging each other in rational dialog separated from emotions, is considered patriarchal.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Similarly their use of "trigger warnings" aren't to make anyone feel better, it is to further reinforce their self-victimization. It is also used as just another emotional weapon for attacking their critics. "He didn't put a trigger warning in his post cause he wants to psychologically damage us with his mansplaining and misogynistic ideas!"

Their idea of "skepticism" is placing feelings above rational thought. The ultimate winning argument in the A+ forums is "how dare you tell me how to FEEL!?"

What I probably find the most disturbing is their worship of weakness. Being a victim, weak willed, damaged, or what not is considering something to be admired. Standing up for what you think, challenging each other in rational dialog separated from emotions, is considered patriarchal.

You are wise beyond your post count.

 

[recursive prophet]

If the A+ people mean what they say, that they believe in fairness, then all information should be public* and there should be no secret forum. Its very existence confirms that A+ is about creating and maintaining a privileged power elite. In doing this, they imitate stereotypical masculine bullying: thirst for dominance and destructive competitiveness.

I forget who first mentioned this, but I also had surmised that the reason for their PM policy was to prevent any kind of communication networks they weren't privy to. In fact this was part of my intent, and why I started the thread on changing the PM rules. The people I would have contacted would be those who had questioned the staff's omnipotence. Doing so in public they would have quickly seen the pattern of my requests for permission to PM.

Is there anyone here who thinks the staff at A+ would hesitate in reading PM's? If they can ban posters like myself based on criticisms made on other forums like this one, it seems p. obvious to me that in the name of truth, justice, and protecting the innocent from evil cabals going on off the boards, they would feel justified...nay, compelled, to see what I was up to.

Atheism+ is unnecessary, and contains loosely defined 'religious' concept like social justice, and suffered from the stupid idea that people questionning its core concepts were automatically against it , but it is also straw-maned continuously as you just did.

I am a cis-het-white-male, and don't feel ******* on by the members of atheism+. Instead, it opened my eyes on different subjects i was not aware of.

I agree there's a lot of straw-manning going on among the A+ skeptics, but I do wish you would expatiate on it a bit, alcorfr. And one question. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the A+ forum? And what subjects did you gain insight from there? Or did you mean from the movement, not the site?

I entered A+ under a veil of suspicion as I was a regular poster at TR and thus of course deemed part of that gang, which you will see mentioned often on their ban list. This despite the fact all my posts at that point at TR were aimed at exposing the hypocrisy of some of the claims made there about A+. I even quoted one in an early post there. But because I tried to defend Testy Calibrate, who I know well from other sites, I was marked as one not willing to immediately bow to superior, experiential authority even though they have no idea of my background. Well, they banned me and I didn't come back in socks, so I guess I'm not a warlock after all.

It should be acknowledged that most sites employ some form of censorship. At ones like TR where there is little to no moderation it is achieved by dogpiling on those considered uncool by the cliqsters. I have also seen what I considered bias actions that bordered on censorship here at JREF, but it is prohibited to mention them outside of FM.

 

[zooterkin]

I forget who first mentioned this, but I also had surmised that the reason for their PM policy was to prevent any kind of communication networks they weren't privy to. In fact this was part of my intent, and why I started the thread on changing the PM rules. The people I would have contacted would be those who had questioned the staff's omnipotence.

Given that, why didn't you just PM them anyway, since they would not be likely to report you for not asking first?

 

[d4m10n]

I don't follow them, but i quickly reviewed the subreddit. Can you provide evidence this community is anti-white-males, as to '****' on them ?

Well, there is the reaction to this headline -- http://www.reddit.com/r/atheismplus/comments/z7jwu/7_amazing_atheists_who_arent_old_white_guys/

As to the AtheismPlus forums, the examples are numerous and outstanding. Here is a personal favorite -- "Oh yes please tell me your BIG IMPORTANT WHITE ABLE NEUROTYPICAL CISMAN OPINIONS about these things."

(Just to give you a better sense of how contemptuously racist and sexist this last statement is, swap out a few of the pertinent adjectives in your mind.)

In both forums, it is taken as a given that you can make a straight cisgendered white man to lose any argument, on any subject, by telling them to check their privilege.

 

[recursive prophet]

Given that, why didn't you just PM them anyway, since they would not be likely to report you for not asking first?

Good question. And that's what I was doing. Ask wind or mood2, and there were several others. But as iirc I said earlier, right before I started that thread I sent one to...forgot name but she had made an astute critique right before I PM'ed her saying only I admired her post I'd just read and agreed with everything she said.

I got a reply that said only that it was against the rules to PM someone without permission. After that I realized I could well be banned by approaching someone there who had been rational on their meds or whatever, but still had drank the kool-aid and would likely report me if there was even a whiff of mutiny. Ya hafta admit sorting out the crazies there from the curious and accidental tourists like myself ain't easy. I still can't figure our how someone capable of rational sounding rhetoric like appalling or qwint can keep defending what is going on there.

This said, I still think it's possible if unlikely that now they've eliminated any who value free thought, Setar and his drones will find peace at last and enjoy preening one another in a very small, irrelevant tent. The lulz won't be of as high a quality, but the awesome lack of awareness on how they are perceived by most skeptics will still provide lots of amusement and perhaps even engender some interesting discussions elsewhere as it has here.

 

[Zelenius]

You have it all wrong. A+ is very welcoming and accepting of white hetero males. So long as they:

- Apologize profusely, and repeatedly for being white hetero male
- Engage in daily self-flagellation
- Feel self-hatred and deep shame for being white hetero male
- Are castrated or are planning on castrating themselves to prevent them from committing rape

If they do this, then white hetero males are tolerated at A+.

 

[alcorfr]

And one question. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the A+ forum? And what subjects did you gain insight from there? Or did you mean from the movement, not the site?

But, but, but..... That's more than one question !

I discovered the atheismplus forum with the matt Dillahunty debacle, and never joined or read any threads, except those linked in this thread here on jref.
The insight i gained was from the movement, and especially feminism, which led to my discovery of the men's right movement. I never heard about it before here in France. (please excuse my spelling and grammatical errors btw)

I then discovered the notion of 'privilege', and in that i agree with randfan that while seductive in appareance, it is usually used to silence opponents, denying the possibility for a so-called privileged person to be rational or unbiased a priori.
And the positive bias i had on this notion was certainly due to my humanism and empathy, not established science or evidence, or so it seems.
i am looking for more data on this.

Incidently, another insight i got is that i discovered the politics and economics forums here on jref !
Not even once before the launch of atheism+ had i been to these parts of the forum, certain my ideas were the right ones... The simple idea to apply critical thought and rational and evidence-based reasoning to such wild subjects was....exalting.

I am therefore not an atheism+ affiliate, but i suspect a lot of the attacks and straw-maning concerning this movement come from men's right advocates who are concerned by the central place feminism took in atheism+.

And the final point : any amount of financial profit one could make for being viciously insulted online would never render a despicable behavior acceptable, be it religious nuts insulting dawkins, or trolls insulting watson and co.
The point should be : guys, don't do that (huhuhu), period.

 

[Stout]

You have it all wrong. A+ is very welcoming and accepting of white hetero males. So long as they:

- Apologize profusely, and repeatedly for being white hetero male
- Engage in daily self-flagellation
- Feel self-hatred and deep shame for being white hetero male
- Are castrated or are planning on castrating themselves to prevent them from committing rape

If they do this, then white hetero males are tolerated at A+.

As it happens, some guy ( presumably white ) tried that today

Even after he was informed that he stepped on some toes and answered the arguments of self identified white males only, and explained that he didn't know who was white, cis, yada yada. the douchbags still continued to pile on.

Then along came the invisible mod, lemme guess, the ceepolk and did that cute trick of hiding posts behind a trigger warning with an "interpretation" of what the post "really" means.

You can play there as a white etc........however you really need to know your SJ stuff. Setar pulls it off and AFIK, the only thing he does that's out of the ordinary is wear panties.

 

[Stout]

I am therefore not an atheism+ affiliate, but i suspect a lot of the attacks and straw-maning concerning this movement come from men's right advocates who are concerned by the central place feminism took in atheism+.

Did you read the backergirl thread ?It's been linked to several times in this thread. That was the thread where feminism took a backseat to trans/genderqueer issues.

I doubt those guys have ever seen a real MRA and if they did, the thread has surely been black bagged and sent off to cyber Gitmo.