Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Giordano]

Gasp.

You know, I usually do believe that you really care about children's health and that your (misguided) anti-vax sentiments are driven by this concern. But you are making it hard for me right now...

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton,

Meanwhile, do you now agree that studies have been performed on whether the current vaccination schedule is safe? So next time you read otherwise at one of your anti-vax websites, can we count on you to correct them?

Any study that says the vaccine schedule is safe when the CDC is okay with a ONE year old baby getting nine injections during ONE visit is bogus.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6002a1.htm

Quote:

Depending on which vaccines are administered during the first year of life, a child might receive up to nine injections at the 12- through 15-month visit (MMR, varicella, Hib, pneumococcal conjugate vaccine [PCV], pediatric diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis [DTaP], inactivated poliovirus [IPV], hepatitis A, hepatitis B, and influenza vaccines). Although there is no exact limit on the number of injections, with a little flexibility, a provider can ensure that the primary series doses are given without administering too many injections at each visit. To reduce the number of injections at the 12- through 15-month visit, the hepatitis B series and 3 doses of IPV (20) can be administered before the child's first birthday.

Do you honestly believe a government agency that says

giving an infant, a 1 year old is an infant, nine vaccine injections in one visit is acceptable and safe

gives a crap about the patient's/parent's best interest and should be trusted?

Even worse a doctor and medical community that goes along with it without a murmur?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Any study that says the vaccine schedule is safe when the CDC is okay with a ONE year old baby getting nine injections during ONE visit is bogus.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6002a1.htm

Quote:


Do you honestly believe a government agency that says

giving an infant, a 1 year old is an infant, nine vaccine injections in one visit is acceptable and safe

gives a crap about the patient's/parent's best interest and should be trusted?

Even worse a doctor and medical community that goes along with it without a murmur?

Yes. Unless you have evidence otherwise?

 

[Tolls]

Any study that says the vaccine schedule is safe when the CDC is okay with a ONE year old baby getting nine injections during ONE visit is bogus.

So forget any evidence to the contrary...any study that says you are wrong is, therefore, wrong.

Makes this thread a little pointless.

 

[dafydd]

Any study that says the vaccine schedule is safe when the CDC is okay with a ONE year old baby getting nine injections during ONE visit is bogus.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6002a1.htm

Quote:


Do you honestly believe a government agency that says

giving an infant, a 1 year old is an infant, nine vaccine injections in one visit is acceptable and safe

gives a crap about the patient's/parent's best interest and should be trusted?

Even worse a doctor and medical community that goes along with it without a murmur?

Yes. Unless you have any evidence to the contrary. You have none.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Yes. Unless you have any evidence to the contrary. You have none.

So i am not the only one swayed more by evidence than claytons assurances?

 

[dafydd]

So i am not the only one swayed more by evidence than claytons assurances?

A feather striking me while traveling at the rate of one inch per century would sway me more that Clayton's vaccination fantasies.

 

[Dcdrac]

and the clear evidence from the North of ENgland on the latest outbreak, unvaccinated children making up the bulk of the cases in that measles outbreak.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

and the clear evidence from the North of ENgland on the latest outbreak, unvaccinated children making up the bulk of the cases in that measles outbreak.

If I understand Clayton correctly, that doesn't bother him, because he thinks that diseases have less impact now than long ago, and that having the disease is preferable to vaccination.

So using mass outbreaks of a disease as evidence that vaccines are necessary... is not effective on Clayton.

But Clayton, you have yet to answer my question, which I asked so many pages ago:

Do you consider autism a death sentence, and if so, would I be better off dead?

 

[Matthew Cline]

Yes. Unless you have any evidence to the contrary. You have none.

C'mon, everyone, he has common sense on his side! </sarcasm>

 

[Giordano]

Clayton,

Almost 2 years and 3765 posts and it still comes down to you having zero evidence that vaccinations cause autism. What you have instead is a pet theory that is contradicted by the scientific experimentation and by epidemiology, and that would require a vast conspiracy of virtually all the medical doctors and scientists in the world. A conspiracy so evil that the participants are not only willing to expose others to the dangers of vaccination, but their very selves and their own children.

Is there any evidence that could convince you that vaccines are safe? Any at all? If not, then you should really reevaluate if you are driven by logic or by emotion on this issue. You can always change your view. You are passionate and seem to care about children; use your energy to promote research into the real causes of autism, not into promoting a discredited link between autism and vaccines.

 

[Giordano]

Any study that says the vaccine schedule is safe when the CDC is okay with a ONE year old baby getting nine injections during ONE visit is bogus.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6002a1.htm

Quote:


Do you honestly believe a government agency that says

giving an infant, a 1 year old is an infant, nine vaccine injections in one visit is acceptable and safe

gives a crap about the patient's/parent's best interest and should be trusted?

Even worse a doctor and medical community that goes along with it without a murmur?

I've asked this before; forgive me if I overlooked your answer: what do you consider a safe vaccine schedule? Which vaccines would you give at which ages? I'm curious because I often get the feeling that you are opposed to all vaccines, not just the pattern in which they are currently given. So which ones do you consider safe, and how would you recommend giving them?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton,

Almost 2 years and 3765 posts and it still comes down to you having zero evidence that vaccinations cause autism. What you have instead is a pet theory that is contradicted by the scientific experimentation and by epidemiology, and that would require a vast conspiracy of virtually all the medical doctors and scientists in the world. A conspiracy so evil that the participants are not only willing to expose others to the dangers of vaccination, but their very selves and their own children.

Is there any evidence that could convince you that vaccines are safe? Any at all? If not, then you should really reevaluate if you are driven by logic or by emotion on this issue. You can always change your view. You are passionate and seem to care about children; use your energy to promote research into the real causes of autism, not into promoting a discredited link between autism and vaccines.

Just the fact that the CDC and the medical community are saying 9 injections of vaccines are safe discredits vaccine schedules. As in if the cook's drunk, drunk with power and greed in this instance, I don't trust anything he serves me to put into my body and heaven forbid anyone's infant or child.


How can you possibly think 9 vaccine injections could be safe?

Forgive me if I ask for more
From what I can give

LUIS FONSI - PERDONAME LYRICS

 

[abaddon]

If I understand Clayton correctly, that doesn't bother him, because he thinks that diseases have less impact now than long ago, and that having the disease is preferable to vaccination.

So using mass outbreaks of a disease as evidence that vaccines are necessary... is not effective on Clayton.

But Clayton, you have yet to answer my question, which I asked so many pages ago:

Do you consider autism a death sentence, and if so, would I be better off dead?

I really want to see the answer to this.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Again the vaccine concept is cut and dry. But the vaccines are not. The body deals the vaccine concept. The body must also deal the materials that accompany todays vaccines.

Catch a baseball. Catch a second baseball. Catch two baseballs at one time.

Now look up the word exponential.

Every piece of accompanying material in a vaccine is the body catching a baseball. The volume of each "material" is a consideration. Each individual particle of a "material" should be considered another baseball that has to be caught and dealt with and disposed of. How many particles in a vaccine?

Now the vaccine particles have to contend with/catch each other so to speak.

And they have to catch each other as they age together.

And they have to catch each other as they age together when their temperature goes up.

And they have to catch each other as they age together when their temperature goes up then down.

And they have to catch each other as they age together when their temperature goes up/down 1 degree.

And they have to catch each other when their temperature goes up/down for a minute, an hour, for a day, a week, a month, a year. 1 degree, 5 degrees etc.

And then there is always the possibility of undetected contamination.

Now look up the word permutation.

A baby's, toddler's, child's immune system must contend and "account for" every last particle.

Now multiply that the by the variables, the number of batches and specific manufacturing formulas and manufacturing locations.

Multiply the above by the MMR(3).

I'd say the possible permutations that a toddler's immune system must contend with when getting an MMR vaccine would be larger than the odds of winning every Power Ball drawing in a year. Maybe even 2 or 3 years.

Like the parents who notice that their children become autistic shortly after getting the MMR vaccine?

You know, I usually do believe that you really care about children's health and that your (misguided) anti-vax sentiments are driven by this concern. But you are making it hard for me right now...

You sidestepped those two posts. Do the math with 9 vaccine injections.

 

[zooterkin]

Just the fact that the CDC and the medical community are saying 9 injections of vaccines are safe discredits vaccine schedules.

You keep asserting this. Are you going to produce evidence to back it up?

 

[Matthew Cline]

You sidestepped those two posts. Do the math with 9 vaccine injections.

What math? So far as I can tell, you think it's simply common sense that 9 vaccines in a single day must be unhealthy.

 

[Clayton Moore]

What math? So far as I can tell, you think it's simply common sense that 9 vaccines in a single day must be unhealthy.

Think of what's being done. Remove the weakened virus or killed virus material and just inject the baby with the rest of each "vaccine." Inventory what entered the baby. You think anybody without some sort of agenda would inject an infant with those foreign materials?

Because that is exactly what is being done over and over and over. The virus material doesn't neutralize the foreign bodies/materials.

If you have vaccines 1 through 9.

Do you think the safety of administering the vaccines in low to high sequence has ever been studied in comparison to the odds in low to high sequence then evens low to high sequence?

Do you think the safety of administering the vaccines in low to high sequence has ever been studied in comparison to the evens in low to high sequence then odds low to high sequence?

Or high to low?


Do you think the Dtap makers have safety tested their vaccine with the latest and greatest vaccines added to the schedule? And vice versa?

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton if you botherred to do any REAL research you will more than likely find out that there has been numersou studies across the world.

Ah the chances are they will totally contradict your fantasies though

 

[zooterkin]

Think of what's being done. Remove the weakened virus or killed virus material and just inject the baby with the rest of each "vaccine."

Leaving aside the fact that it's all been tested, is that stuff actually different between different vaccines?

Produce some data, please.