• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Vaccine/autism CT discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
dafydd said:
I'm not an expert on vaccination, just like you, but I would hazard a guess that a parent would notice that the child is ill. It seems that you will post anything here except proof that there is a link between vaccination and autism. How about answering the questions put to you?
Click to expand...

Like the parents who notice that their children become autistic shortly after getting the MMR vaccine?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Reality Check







My question was How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

My question was NOT How will you know if your child WILL HAVE a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?


Reality Check, I'm not here to handhold.
Click to expand...
Clayton, I thought we had just been through this, with posters explaining to you how they would be able to detect a serious side effect in their child, only to discover that what you really intended to ask was, "How do you know a serious "side effect" is the result of the vaccination?" Can I assume that you accept that parents and doctors can identify serious illnesses and the question is how to establish if a given illness was caused by a vaccination?

If so, the first places to look are the packaging information with the vaccine, public health websites, and a consultation with your doctor. You see, vaccines are tested before they are allowed to be used clinically, and the types and frequency of the side effects are recorded, analyzed statistically, provided to regulatory agencies, and made available to doctors and to the public. If my child developed a serious rash after a DPT inoculation, I'd check if that was a reaction that had been observed before. By the way- I would rather they experience a rash, however irritating, than die of tetanus!

Now it does turn out that sometimes drugs and vaccines have unexpected side effects that are only observed in people with certain other conditions, or are so rare that you only can detect them in large populations. The FDA recognizes this, and has a reporting system such that doctors observing serious illnesses after using a drug or vaccine inform the regulating agency. Then regulators check to see if other cases have occurred and if there is a statistically significant correlation between the drug/vaccine and the illness. Of course, that only establishes correlation, not causation, but it often leads to a government-mandated halt or restriction in the sales of the drug. Then further tests are performed to confirm if the drug/vaccine really causes the illness, to define the mechanism, and to establish why this wasn't seen in the earlier tests. If the side effect is serious enough, the drug/vaccine is either banned, or its use is restricted to reduce or eliminate the chances of the side effect occurring.

If you doubt this works the way I describe, you can look up examples of where this process has led to big profit drugs being pulled from the market, despite the economic damage to a powerful drug company. Troglitazone, an anti-diabetes drug, is one good example. Apparently the vast conspiracy you believe exists to hide the danger of drugs and vaccines is a failure, hmm?
 
Last edited:
Clayton Moore said:
Like the parents who notice that their children become autistic shortly after getting the MMR vaccine?
Click to expand...
Once again, I suspect that you are really intending to ask if the child became autistic because of the vaccine, rather than if their parents and doctors accurately diagnosed them with autism, right? Because I don't think you really believe that any event "b" that sometimes takes place after event "a" is caused by event "a," right?

Again, to answer the question I think you are intending to ask, one performs detailed studies to determine if there really is a link between the two events. And as repeatedly shown to you in this thread, all the detailed scientific studies demonstrate that there is no link between vaccinations and autism. Do you remember that you yourself proposed a study in which children would not be vaccinated and then studied to see if they no longer developed autism? Do you remember then being informed that (in effect) that study had been done in Japan, and that autism rates went up when the vaccinations were decreased?
 
http://www.naturalnews.com/038598_vaccines_medical_hoax_government_documents.html

JCVI was fully aware of MMR vaccine dangers as early as 1989, but covered them up
Beginning on page three of her report, Dr. Tomljenovic begins outlining the sordid details of meetings held as early as 1981 where the JCVI clearly engaged in fraud, cover-up, and lies about vaccines to protect the vaccine industry, not children, from harm. Minutes from these meetings reveal that the JCVI actively tried to cover up severe side effects associated with common vaccines like measles and whooping cough (pertussis), both of which were clearly linked at the time to causing severe brain damage in a substantial percentage of the children that received them.

Of particular concern was how the JCVI handled unfavorable data on the controversial MMR vaccine for measles, mumps, and rubella. 10 years before Dr. Andrew Wakefield published his study on MMR in The Lancet, JCVI was already fully aware that the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control (NIBSC) had identified a clear link between MMR and vaccine-induced meningitis and encephalitis. But rather than come forward with this information and call for further safety assessments on the vaccine, the JCVI instead censored this critical information from the public, and blatantly lied about the safety of MMR for years.
Click to expand...

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038598_vaccines_medical_hoax_government_documents.html#ixzz2HSOMZ4jX


By 1983, the JCVI appeared to have had more evidence that the measles vaccine could cause encephalitis associated with “severe handicap” in a subset of vulnerable children. At the JCVI meeting on 17th of June 1983 (http://www.dh.gov.uk/ab/JCVI/DH_120115), the Committee on Safety of Medicines (CSM) received 66 reports of suspected adverse reactions to measles vaccines over the period January 1982 to April 1983. According to the transcript of the meeting:
Click to expand...
 
the Committee on Safety of Medicines (CSM) received 66 reports of suspected adverse reactions to measles vaccines over the period January 1982 to April 1983.
Click to expand...

Out of how many vaccinations?
 
Clayton Moore said:
You have the link.
Click to expand...

As do you. You chose to post just the figure for people having apparent side effects. What significance do you think it has on its own? Given that no-one has said that vaccinations are totally safe, the number is meaningless out of context.
 
Clayton Moore said:
You have the link.
Click to expand...
There are several links within the page. Where are the damning entries or have you not read them yourself and just parrotting Mikey Adams and fellow nutter Tomljenovic? Which MMR is being referred to Clay and what does this have to do with autism claims after MMR?

Este
 
Border Reiver said:
Not that I think you actually care about the distinction, but autism is NOT a disease, it is a developmental disorder.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Thanks for mentioning that.

Clayton, I think it reasonable to assume that you won't deign me worthy of a response.

I also think it reasonable to assume that the reason is my autism.

If you don't respond to me now, I will regard your failure to respond as acknowledgement of this post.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Of course there is a link.
Anti-vaxer?
Go to the autism sites where parents of autistic children discuss their child's autism. They are real people with names and faces.

Anti-vaxer? Why do you think these parents are called that? It is to put their version of what happened in the worst light.

Anti-vaxer? The people here screaming anti-vaxer are screen names.
Click to expand...

Have you forgotten, CM?
The age kiddies get their vaxx coincides when the symptoms of autism become clearly apparent.


Clayton Moore said:
GWS victims included many military who never even served in the GULF. Guess what all the GWS victims had in common?
Click to expand...

Autism?

Clayton Moore said:
Again the vaccine concept is cut and dry. But the vaccines are not. The body deals the vaccine concept. The body must also deal the materials that accompany todays vaccines....
I'd say the possible permutations that a toddler's immune system must contend with when getting an MMR vaccine would be larger than the odds of winning every Power Ball drawing in a year. Maybe even 2 or 3 years.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with autism?

Bram Kaandorp said:
What does that even mean? Does that mean you won't answer my question? If so, just say so, instead of ignoring me.

And don't think I'm hounding you. I won't hound anyone. I'm merely trying to get an answer from you. No more, no less.
Click to expand...

Yes.
CM, why not enter into a discussion with someone who is autistic?

Clayton Moore said:
Like the parents who notice that their children become autistic shortly after getting the MMR vaccine?
Click to expand...

No, CM.
They show the symptoms around that time, they don't become autistic at that time.
Do you understand the difference?
 
Bram Kaandorp said:
Exactly. Thanks for mentioning that.
Click to expand...


Not a problem, I have two children on the spectrum (technically, I would posit that we're ALL on the spectrum, but some of us do not display the elements of the disorder) so getting it right is fairly important to me and my wife.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Like the parents who notice that their children become autistic shortly after getting the MMR vaccine?
Click to expand...

What about the vast majority of children who were not diagnosed with autism after being vaccinated? How do you know know that the children who were diagnosed with autism were not autistic before the vaccination? You appear to think that there is a simple test for autism.

''Presently, we don’t have a medical test that can diagnose autism. Instead, specially trained physicians and psychologists administer autism-specific behavioral evaluations.''


''A typical diagnostic evaluation involves a multi-disciplinary team of doctors including a pediatrician, psychologist, speech and language pathologist and occupational therapist. Genetic testing may likewise be recommended, as well as screening for related medical issues such as sleep difficulties. This type of comprehensive helps parents understand as much as possible about their child's strengths and needs. ''

http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis

If you have any proof of a link between autism and vaccination please feel free to post it, and also please tell me if my brother should apply for euthanasia for his autistic daughter. You said that autism was a death sentence. Have you changed your mind about that?
 
Last edited:
Bram Kaandorp said:
Exactly. Thanks for mentioning that.

Clayton, I think it reasonable to assume that you won't deign me worthy of a response.

I also think it reasonable to assume that the reason is my autism.

If you don't respond to me now, I will regard your failure to respond as acknowledgement of this post.
Click to expand...

Quoted, just in case he has you on ignore. Answer him Clayton, you can't catch autism via the internet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom