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The BFF V The BFRO Forums

I'll never understand the anger.

I do not think Bigfoot/Wood Ape/Sasquatch/Yeti/Yowie/Abominable Snowman or any living man-ape exist.

I do not reduce this issue to one motivated by financial gain. I do not reduce this issue to one of mental impairment.

This issue is far more complicated and nuanced. There is no simple resolution.

I'll never understand the anger.
 
I don't understand it either. If someone told me they didn't like chocolate ice cream, I'ld be amazed, but not angry. That's how I would view it, but these people get majorly pissed off because you don't like their chocolate ice cream.
 
It's because, secretly, deep down, they know their little fairy tale is just that: make believe.

and nobody likes facing the reality of that
 
It's because, secretly, deep down, they know their little fairy tale is just that: make believe.

and nobody likes facing the reality of that

My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.
 
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.

Perhaps you might expound on some of these complexities.
 
It is a complex issue, if you look at the history of just females involved in bigfoot world you tend to notice that most have a pattern of some kind of abuse in their history. That percentage is much higher than it ought to be when compared to statistics I'm familiar with, but I can't seem to make a connection as to why that would predispose someone to the topic. I can make the connection with the abuse one can endure from the community in general as that pattern tends to repeat itself.
 
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.

I could care less what folks believe as long as they don't throw a complete crazy fit when I point out some of the flaws in their theories....
 
No matter where you go in life, you will find rational people who can reasonably discuss most subjects. However, they may have blind spots in certain areas where rationality just flies out of the window. When it comes to one of these specific subjects, then it's a complete waste of time to attempt to remedy that with debate. You simply can't replace what either evolution, or the creator of choice, depending on the person's preference, left out.
 
My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.

Sasfooty is either crazy or lying or both. There is no nuance about it.

If you read the pinned thread at BFF it seems fairly obvious Brian Brown is making the **** up as he goes. It is, in his words, a total lie.

Ketchum it is now obvious was a scam from the beginnning, bilking a fool out of hundres of G's.

The BF world is rife with hoaxes and money plays.

Just what is so complex about the world of BF?
 
Sasfooty is either crazy or lying or both. There is no nuance about it.

If you read the pinned thread at BFF it seems fairly obvious Brian Brown is making the **** up as he goes. It is, in his words, a total lie.

Ketchum it is now obvious was a scam from the beginnning, bilking a fool out of hundres of G's.

The BF world is rife with hoaxes and money plays.

Just what is so complex about the world of BF?

I did not say such elements do not exist in Bigfootery. What I said is that you can not reduce the entire phenomena to lies, mental impairment, or money motivations. To do so is to "refute" it or "explain" it too easily.

I do not know Sasfooty but I do not think she is experiencing what she claims, or thinks, she is.

I have challenged Brian Brown at BFF myself. I know what he is claiming. If he is lying, then shame on him. Reading what he claims to have experienced in his own words, I am more inclined to believe he believes. He is a Believer, and that makes him blind to certain obvious explanations for what he is experiencing.

Likewise, Ketchum may be a scam artist, or another true believer who is blind to what the data tells her, and what hoaxers have shown her.

I would like to emphasise this: True Believers gravitate to what validates their beliefs. This is true of Bigfoot enthusiasts, devoutly religious people, political junkies (Fox News, anyone?) and so on and so on. This is one level of complexity that is ignored when you reduce the issue to lying, nuttiness, or money grabs.

Another level of complexity is the formation and continuance of folkloric beliefs. I used to think cryptozoology was valid and should be formally declared a branch of zoology. Now I see it as neo-folklore, a creation of a new bestiary to replace ancient beliefs in dragons, unicorns, and the like. If modern knowledge and understanding have not killed off fanciful bestiaries, then there may be an innate need to believe in monsters. This added complexity is not even entertained or considered if you reduce the issue to lying, nuttiness, or money grabs.

I think most Bigfooters are motivated by discovery. They think they are part of an intellectual and physical pursuit that will lead to advancing our knowledge of the world. They are fooled, I think, by the apparent grounding of the phenomena in the element of wild life and nature. As an imagined natural event, Bigfoot is almost palpable compared to ghosts, UFO's, and other more mystical things. One would get no sense of this part of the Bigfoot story if it is reduced to lies, nuttiness, and money grabs.
 
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My point was directed more to my fellow skeptics who reduce Bigfoot phenomena to lying, craziness, or money grabs, and seem to get angry if anyone doesn't toe the line and thinks the issue is more complex.

More complex if you are into that sort of thing, I keep things simple and don't get into trying to figure out what's in people's minds, I just look at the street angle of what's going on and I see a lot of craziness and money grabbers, I also see a huge connection to religion and fantasy, but over all I suspect it's just the human need to find something you click with and go with it, Footers for the most part are pretty humble as long as you are on their side, so I can see how it can be an attraction away from life's daily grind, that would explain why they are so defensive when you rattle things around them.

Tim :)
 
I have challenged Brian Brown at BFF myself. I know what he is claiming. If he is lying, then shame on him. Reading what he claims to have experienced in his own words, I am more inclined to believe he believes. He is a Believer, and that makes him blind to certain obvious explanations for what he is experiencing.

Likewise, Ketchum may be a scam artist, or another true believer who is blind to what the data tells her, and what hoaxers have shown her.

Maybe I have grown more cynical over time. Some years back I think I would have been more open to the idea that Brian Brown was guilty of wishful thinking or that Ketchum was incompetent.

However, years of lurking the BFF, and watching bleevers post here has convinced me that when it comes to BF one must suspect lies and deception first and foremost.

Based on this I find it far more likely that Brian Brown and Kathy Strain are liars than the victims of a third party hoax.

Given the dollars the the fool has reportedly shelled out to ketchum it is equally obvious Ketchum was a scam artist from the get go.

I no longer give benefit of the doubt to anything related to BF.
 
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I have challenged Brian Brown at BFF myself. I know what he is claiming. If he is lying, then shame on him. Reading what he claims to have experienced in his own words, I am more inclined to believe he believes. He is a Believer, and that makes him blind to certain obvious explanations for what he is experiencing.
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Well, shame on Brian Brown because he is a liar.

jerrywayne...Do you actually believe the horsepucky regarding the DNA sample supposedly sent for analysis from the "blood" found sometime after the multiple shotgun blast fiasco? :boggled::jaw-dropp

The fact that he is obviously blatantly lying regarding the story surrounding the "attempted" DNA analysis is reason enough to brand the whole "Operation Persistence" a complete and utter lie.
 
I did not say such elements do not exist in Bigfootery. What I said is that you can not reduce the entire phenomena to lies, mental impairment, or money motivations. To do so is to "refute" it or "explain" it too easily.

Perpetuating the folklore are those that understand Barnum's maxim; beguiling the credulous for profit is a long-standing business model and many times the credules share part of the blame in this deception.

While it is true that not every enthusiast falls into the categories of deluded, hoaxer and liar, an awful lot do, and even those who seem to legitimately believe in what they or others have seen (and "know") are loathe to admit to the limits, foibles, and failures of human cognition.

"I know what I saw!"

Well, maybe not. Likely not.
 
It is a complex issue, if you look at the history of just females involved in bigfoot world you tend to notice that most have a pattern of some kind of abuse in their history.

I have a feeling we might all regret this, but . . . whaa? You've done some kind of a survey of female bigfooters, compared that incidence rates of abuse among the general population, and found a significantly higher rate of abuse history among the sample of women who like bigfoot stories?
 
It was something Cervelo and I discussed once. We were talking about women well known in the bigfoot world. It seems that most have some kind of history of child or spousal abuse. Then as I got to know some of the female BFF members a little better it was something I noticed, most had a history of spousal abuse. It was a lot more common than general population statistics would indicate, yes.
 
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Some heavy stuff and something I never got notice of, I do think women are a minority in this BF thing so maybe they stand out more when they get involved, and the women that are into it seem to get that celebrity status a little quicker or again just stand out better, I haven't seen many women getting those key reports in or having any good encounters that last very long, basically IMHO women can write and come across better in some cases that the average male footer so they seem to have an elevated status, but all in all women aside from adding their opinion don't seem to have had the encounters that could explain past personal problems, like us all it's just curiosity in the subject and no more.

I guess me being me could say it's redneck trailer park spousal abuse in most cases, but I don't want to link that with having a BF fascination, my guess would be it's Nascar related ~ lol

Tim :)
 
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I have noticed that women are far and away the leaders when it comes to habituation claims.

What does this say? that women are more likely to create fantasy worlds for attention? Or that it's simply a coping mechanism for mental illness or past abuse?

Could be an interesting PHD thesis in psychology
 
I have noticed that women are far and away the leaders when it comes to habituation claims.

What does this say? that women are more likely to create fantasy worlds for attention? Or that it's simply a coping mechanism for mental illness or past abuse?

Could be an interesting PHD thesis in psychology

Interesting pathology no doubt.

What I find facinating is the spittle-flecked invective directed at skeptics and scientists that don't buy into the footer's boutique fantasy. Acceptance is but a specimen away and many in the community claim to know exactly where this primate lives; so . . . go and get a specimen.

Ask why this hasn't happened and excuses (and hilarity) ensue.
 

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