LDS

[Foster Zygote]

There are none so blind than they who will not see.

So, that's 3 prophets, BofM and PofGP. That's not nonsense, those are facts.

Janadele's dismissal is bordering on a lie.

 

[Empress]

Does the LDS church have any physical items related to Joeseph Smiths interpreting the golden tablets? I'm thinking maybe hat,sheet, seer stones, tablets or portions thereof. Honest question.

No. God took them all back. Terribly convenient.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Does the LDS church have any physical items related to Joeseph Smiths interpreting the golden tablets? I'm thinking maybe hat,sheet, seer stones, tablets or portions thereof. Honest question.

Give 'em some time. After all, it took the Christians centuries to find artifacts connected to Jesus. But once they did, they found enough pieces of the true cross to build one of her majesty's battleships, and no less that two heads of John the Baptist.

 

[Pup]

Whoever was first to mention the "I know 'em when I see 'em" wins the golden calf this round.

You can send the calf to me via PM or post it here. Bonus points if you can find another use for the word "dusky."

Ahem. Not so fast, calf-boy.

Yours was post #2839. Here's post #2831, three hours earlier:

So you had scientific definitions, legal definitions, and social definitions--all in conflict.

And that's why I (and probably most others here) predict that Janadele and the LDS church can never get beyond a definition that basically amounts to "We know 'em when we see 'em--you know, those kind of people."

 

[Empress]

Give 'em some time. After all, it took the Christians centuries to find artifacts connected to jesus. But once they did, they found enough pieces of the true cross to build one of her majesty's battleships, and no less that two heads of John the Baptist.

This thread is chock full of win.

 

[showmevegas]

No "relics" at all? Why did God take em back?

 

[carlitos]

Ahem. Not so fast, calf-boy.

With humblest of apologies. If the golden calf is foil-wrapped chocolate, can I maybe have a drumstick?

 

[RandFan]

Does the LDS church have any physical items related to Joeseph Smiths interpreting the golden tablets? I'm thinking maybe hat,sheet, seer stones, tablets or portions thereof. Honest question.

No. You just don't get it. Think of Joseph Smith the same you would with the guy on the corner selling Rolex watches and prime real estate in Florida. Have a little faith.

 

[Empress]

No "relics" at all? Why did God take em back?

So no one could prove that Joseph Smith was a con artist who made the whole thing up. Unfortunately, for an omniscient being, god isn't too bright, and the information leaked out anyway.

 

[RandFan]

No. You just don't get it. Think of Joseph Smith the same you would with the guy on the corner selling Rolex watches and prime real estate in Florida. Have a little faith.

I failed to mention that unlike the man on the corner, the Mormon Church expects 10% of your income for life. A small price to pay in order to become a god (the Mormon Church teaches that mortals can become gods).

 

[jsfisher]

I failed to mention that unlike the man on the corner, the Mormon Church expects 10% of your income for life. A small price to pay in order to become a god (the Mormon Church teaches that mortals can become gods).

So, with proper estate planning and a well-timed conversion to Mormonism, a person could save a considerable about of money. Better still, schedule all the necessary rituals for after death by way of proxy and keep it all.

 

[Pup]

No "relics" at all? Why did God take em back?

Actually, there's a bit of the original Egyption papyrus that Smith used to "translate" the Pearl of Great Price from.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Vignette1.jpg

One can see how the missing parts were drawn in, presumably by Joseph Smith, and then used as a basis for the engravings in the Pearl of Great Price.

Randfan posted about it earlier in the thread with links to helpful images:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8888361&postcount=846

More on the whole story here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

 

[showmevegas]

No. You just don't get it. Think of Joseph Smith the same you would with the guy on the corner selling Rolex watches and prime real estate in Florida. Have a little faith.

Ok, I get it. Seems like most religions have some sacred "pieces o' people n parts of stuff" though...

 

[Craig4]

snip... if they did not, then the Lord's representatives would.

Why does the lord need representatives?

 

[ria_rokz]

With humblest of apologies. If the golden calf is foil-wrapped chocolate, can I maybe have a drumstick?

*wipes chocolate off face*. Erm.... Uh.... Some angels showed up and took the golden calf back last night. You'll just have to take my word for it.

 

[showmevegas]

Thanks! So, apparently Joeseph bought this, other fragments and egyptian mummies for 2400 bucks from a traveling "mummy show" Spendy that prophet stuff

 

[showmevegas]

Meant thanks Pup. I'll get the quote thingy down one of these days

 

[sackett]

Something else to consider: J. Smith was a big, strong, quick joker, good at wrasslin' and rough-n-tumble. So were his fathers and brothers. It's said that when the four Smiths walked shoulder to shoulder down the street, people paid attention -- and probably got out of the way unless they were driving a dray wagon with a heavy team.

The early Mormons got quite a kick out of JS's ability to whup ass, whether in good fun or in earnest. It's a handy capacity when you're working a big and highly public con.

Other con men find it useful to be small and elusive, like, say, Father Divine.

 

[skyrider44]

No. You just don't get it. Think of Joseph Smith the same you would with the guy on the corner selling Rolex watches and prime real estate in Florida. Have a little faith.

You don't know what the Church has in its vaults that were used/owned by Joseph Smith. Here again, you engage in reckless speculation disguised as a statement of fact. Please name the source of your claim that the Church doesn't have some of Joseph Smith's personal effects in its vaults. Go ahead, name your source. Otherwise, amend
your statement to read "It is my opinion that. . . ."

 

[Cat Tale]

Americans are very forgiving. The Mormon Church can get past it's racist past but it needs to be honest and forthright. When someone tells you that it's not the color of a person's skin and yet the scriptures and prophets repeat again and again "black skin" then you wonder why? People don't like to be lied to. I can't think of a worse spokesperson for an organization than one who will deny the plain and evident truth. "Black skin". Blacks could not hold the priesthood in the Mormon Church. There isn't a single person reading this that doesn't know that to be a fact. I grew up Mormon. I graduated seminary (a high school course) and served a mission. Not once did I ever hear anyone distinguish between "negro" and "black". That's a fiction invented out of whole cloth and it is unbecoming.

Randfan, I totally agree. When I took the missionary discussions I was taught it was blacks. All the newspaper articles surrounding the time of President Kimball's announcement talk about the "blacks" getting the priesthood. Here are a few examples (again from genealogybank, a subscription site):

Mormons to admit black priests. Salt Lake City -- (UPI) -- President Spencer W. Kimball of the Church of Jesus Christ... announced today he had received a 'revelation' from the Lord that black men may be admitted to the Mormon priesthood. Kimball, 83, ended a 148-year church policy of excluding blacks from the priesthood...

Mormons Open Priesthood to Black Members. Salt Lake City (AP)... In the past, blacks of African descent were the only males denied those offices, necessary for most leadership positions.

Black Mormons now feel accepted. Salt Lake City (UPI) -- Black members of the Mormon Church say they have felt more at home in their religion during the past year since church officials reversed a 148-year-old policy banning their race from the priesthood...
Without the priesthood, Mormon blacks were denied full participation in the church. They were excluded from most leadership positions and were not permitted to take part in sacred temple rites, including the 'sealing' of marriages and other ordinances.

The articles are numerous, and all of them even quotes from "black members" referred to it as a ban against "blacks."

One more quote I just found.

LDS Institute Manual D&C Declaration 2 The revelation came to the President of the Church; it also came to each individual present. There were ten members of the Council of the Twelve and three of the First Presidency there assembled. The result was that President Kimball knew, and each one of us knew, independent of any other person, by direct and personal revelation to us, that the time had now come to extend the gospel and all its blessings and all its obligations, including the priesthood and the blessings of the house of the Lord, to those of every nation, culture, and race, including the black race. There was no question whatsoever as to what happened or as to the word and message that came.

Not once did I ever hear anyone distinguish between "negro" and "black".

Remember the old Crayola crayon?