Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Giordano]

So if your child/toddler has a serious side effect/affliction after a recent vaccine jab and
the package information or your doctor don't associate the side affect with the vaccine then the vaccine you suspected could not have caused the serious side affect that you've become aware of?


You are aware that the response almost everyone gets when they complain about a product is denial and assurance that all is OK?


In fact, weren't the initial thousands of GWS victims naysayed as malingerers?

Now you are asking a very different question than what you first asked: you are now asking how can we identify a serious reaction as being caused by the vaccine. I suspect you can figure that out yourself, if you think about it. It is related to how the data for the package information was first obtained, and how unexpected side effects for any drug are identified.

But tell you what: I'll answer your question after you answer one of mine! How about my most recent question: why do you cite foreign studies as evidence of vaccine dangers, but not accept foreign studies as evidence of vaccine safety?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Now you are asking a very different question than what you first asked: you are now asking how can we identify a serious reaction as being caused by the vaccine. I suspect you can figure that out yourself, if you think about it. It is related to how the data for the package information was first obtained, and how unexpected side effects for any drug are identified.

But tell you what: I'll answer your question after you answer one of mine! How about my most recent question: why do you cite foreign studies as evidence of vaccine dangers, but not accept foreign studies as evidence of vaccine safety?

Because we're getting neither from the US. And I choose to believe victims speaking out and up. And I choose not to believe corporate sponsored studies that say vaccines are safe because there actual victims and parents who say otherwise. People don't queue up together and make up false testimonies for personal gain. They and their families have been injured and they will never recover with today's or foreseeable science.

So tell me, why are these people speaking out? They're all nuts?

The arrogance that sides with corporate, money grabbing medicine is disgusting.


Many moons ago managed health care was enabled/legislated in by congress. Since then modern medicine has been a burgeoning safe house for thieves, charlatans, snake oil salesman, drug and vaccine abuse.

 

[Giordano]

Because we're getting neither from the US. And I choose to believe victims speaking out and up. And I choose not to believe corporate sponsored studies that say vaccines are safe because there actual victims and parents who say otherwise. People don't queue up together and make up false testimonies for personal gain. They and their families have been injured and they will never recover with today's or foreseeable science.

So tell me, why are these people speaking out? They're all nuts?

The arrogance that sides with corporate, money grabbing medicine is disgusting.


Many moons ago managed health care was enabled/legislated in by congress. Since then modern medicine has been a burgeoning safe house for thieves, charlatans, snake oil salesman, drug and vaccine abuse.

But that was not your original objection at all, and it makes your original objection even more strange. When presented with foreign pro-vaccine studies, you demanded USA studies (which were then provided to you, so they do exist, even if you then chose to ignore them). You didn't request independent studies-you requested USA studies, which by your logic would be even more likely to be contaminated by big US pharma money. Were all of the pro-vaccine studies provided to you sponsored by pharma companies? Did you even bother to look? What about all the independent studies, public health services and millions of individual doctors who monitor people's health and have found vaccines to be far safer than the diseases they protect against?

Yes, the best sources of scientific studies are from unbiased sources. Yet the anti-vax "studies" you vcite are neither from unbiased sources nor scientific. Self-reporting and/or analysis by people who see themselves as victims are not an accurate method of obtaining data, as has been repeatedly explained to you.

Also previously explained to you is that very few parents believe vaccines have hurt their children, not the huge movement you imagine. Are the vast majority of parents who trust vaccines nuts? Or perhaps instead it is the tiny but vocal minority of parents who have been convinced by anti-vax advocates who are wrong (not nuts or lying, just wrong).

Finally, you still have a fundamental problem with your emotional rejection of modern medicine: people are living longer and healthier lives than ever before.

 

[Estellea]

Here is a vaccine question for you. How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

Because we're getting neither from the US. And I choose to believe victims speaking out and up. And I choose not to believe corporate sponsored studies that say vaccines are safe because there actual victims and parents who say otherwise. People don't queue up together and make up false testimonies for personal gain. They and their families have been injured and they will never recover with today's or foreseeable science.

Yes they do as evidenced by the LAB v. GSK suit featuring Wakefield and the U.S. OAP featuring a bevy of sleazy lawyers and physicians.

So tell me, why are these people speaking out? They're all nuts?

In a manner of speaking, yes. It doesn't take much to convince ignorant people that vaccines "damaged" their children rather than accepting that it just happened or something they did inadvertantly to put their children at risk for developing an ASD.

The arrogance that sides with corporate, money grabbing medicine is disgusting.

So is the arrogant ignorance that preys upon people's desperation and causes the abuse of special needs children in the name of recovery. Whereas there is a strong movement afoot to premise the practise of medicine with more rigorous studies hence science or evidence-based medicine.

Many moons ago managed health care was enabled/legislated in by congress. Since then modern medicine has been a burgeoning safe house for thieves, charlatans, snake oil salesman, drug and vaccine abuse.

You have yet to prove anything that resembles "vaccine abuse" and the same "deregulation" has been benefitting dangerous supplement and herb sales along with a cottage industry of charlatans "treating autism" with horrible "biomedical approaches" such as faecal transplants, restrictive diets, pharmaceuticals where not medically-indicated, HBOT, bleach baths drinks and enemas and chelation all based upon bogus tests. I don't see you berating that practice Clay.

Este

 

[dafydd]

Finally, you still have a fundamental problem with your emotional rejection of modern medicine: people are living longer and healthier lives than ever before.

I have asked Clayton which period in history that he would like to take medicine back to but received no answer.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

Here is a vaccine question for you. How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

That's rich.

You react to every question that is easy to twist into something you can use, but simple questions such as "is autism a death sentence?" are ignored?

Shame on you.

Or is it because you genuinely think that it's a death sentence that you don't respond to my question? Do you actually consider me a dead person? Is that why you ignore me?

 

[dafydd]

That's rich.

You react to every question that is easy to twist into something you can use, but simple questions such as "is autism a death sentence?" are ignored?

Shame on you.

Or is it because you genuinely think that it's a death sentence that you don't respond to my question? Do you actually consider me a dead person? Is that why you ignore me?

Clayton will convert to Judaism rather than answer you.

 

[abaddon]

That's rich.

You react to every question that is easy to twist into something you can use, but simple questions such as "is autism a death sentence?" are ignored?

Shame on you.

Or is it because you genuinely think that it's a death sentence that you don't respond to my question? Do you actually consider me a dead person? Is that why you ignore me?

I am not 100% sure, but I think CM's thinking goes like this:

1. Autism is a tongue lolling, knuckle dragging, vegitative state worse than death.

2. This state is caused by vaccinations.

You, Bram, simply by posting, call into question these most fervently held beliefs of CM. By acknowledging you, his beliefs crumble to dust. You present the challenge he cannot face.

It's safer for CM to pretend you do not exist, and hug his beliefs instead.

 

[dafydd]

I am not 100% sure, but I think CM's thinking goes like this:

1. Autism is a tongue lolling, knuckle dragging, vegitative state worse than death.

2. This state is caused by vaccinations.

You, Bram, simply by posting, call into question these most fervently held beliefs of CM. By acknowledging you, his beliefs crumble to dust. You present the challenge he cannot face.

It's safer for CM to pretend you do not exist, and hug his beliefs instead.

My brother has an autistic daughter. She is very lively and intelligent. Clayton, should my brother just ask for euthanasia for her now? After all, autism is a death sentence, according to you.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Here is a vaccine question for you. How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?

The only reaction my kids have had is a sore arm. I have seen actual seizures from a now vaccine preventable illness in one of my kids that required an ambulance trip to the hospital. Roald Dahl got to also experience a very serious side effect from measles in one of his kids, but you refuse to acknowledge that fact.

Now that you are back, you can answer the question that I now present to you for the sixth time:

And then when you are done with that, you can read this table on thimerosal amounts in vaccines in the American pediatric schedule. Then tell us which on that this are only available with thimerosal. That means that none of the vaccines that have the word "free" in the thimerosal column.

Note that several of the influenza vaccines do not have thimerosal, so it is not influenza vaccine.

Prove to us that you know how to read a tabulated list.

 

[abaddon]

Because we're getting neither from the US. And I choose to believe victims speaking out and up. And I choose not to believe corporate sponsored studies that say vaccines are safe because there actual victims and parents who say otherwise. People don't queue up together and make up false testimonies for personal gain. They and their families have been injured and they will never recover with today's or foreseeable science.

You choose to believe? Meh, i prefer evidence.

So tell me, why are these people speaking out? They're all nuts?

Yep, Honey Boo Boo demonstrates this. Just look at her mom. Fat slapper gets painted up and becomes a painted fat slapper. Cue applause. But no amount of paint can conceal the fat slapper.

The arrogance that sides with corporate, money grabbing medicine is disgusting.

How dare anyone make a profit from their efforts, are you a communist?

Many moons ago managed health care was enabled/legislated in by congress. Since then modern medicine has been a burgeoning safe house for thieves, charlatans, snake oil salesman, drug and vaccine abuse.

How is this different from what you do? Are you admitting to being a snake oil salesman or what?

 

[jdc324]

In fact, weren't the initial thousands of GWS victims naysayed as malingerers?

*bzzt* Repetition.

We've done GWS already. You didn't like what the research said. If you want to go through it again then we can, but I'm afraid that reality hasn't altered to match your prejudices since we last discussed that topic.

 

[Clayton Moore]

You have yet to prove anything that resembles "vaccine abuse" and the same "deregulation" has been benefitting dangerous supplement and herb sales along with a cottage industry of charlatans "treating autism" with horrible "biomedical approaches" such as faecal transplants, restrictive diets, pharmaceuticals where not medically-indicated, HBOT, bleach baths drinks and enemas and chelation all based upon bogus tests. I don't see you berating that practice Clay.

Este

Vaccine abuse includes regulatory bodies looking the other way or not looking at all. We've seen and felt the abuse on the drug side and drug manufacturing is child's play in comparison to the complexity of making vaccines.

 

[dafydd]

Vaccine abuse includes regulatory bodies looking the other way or not looking at all. We've seen and felt the abuse on the drug side and drug manufacturing is child's play in comparison to the complexity of making vaccines.

Will you answer the questions that have been put to you please? Avoiding them does your credibility, such as it is, no good at all.

 

[Deetee]

Will you answer the questions that have been put to you please? Avoiding them does your credibility, such as it is, no good at all.

"Credibility"?
Clayton can't do words over 3 syllables, sorry.

 

[pakeha]

So if your child/toddler has a serious side effect/affliction after a recent vaccine jab and
the package information or your doctor don't associate the side affect with the vaccine then the vaccine you suspected could not have caused the serious side affect that you've become aware of?


You are aware that the response almost everyone gets when they complain about a product is denial and assurance that all is OK?


In fact, weren't the initial thousands of GWS victims naysayed as malingerers?

Could you explain what GWS has to do with autism, please?

Vaccine abuse includes regulatory bodies looking the other way or not looking at all. We've seen and felt the abuse on the drug side and drug manufacturing is child's play in comparison to the complexity of making vaccines.

How does this count as evidence for a link between autism and vaccination, CM?

 

[Estellea]

Vaccine abuse includes regulatory bodies looking the other way or not looking at all. We've seen and felt the abuse on the drug side and drug manufacturing is child's play in comparison to the complexity of making vaccines.

Clayton, please provide evidence for the above statement. Considering vaccines get recalled as a precaution, vaccines are re-formulated as a precaution, statements of side effects are given to vaccine recipients and people injured by vaccines or presumed to be are compensated, there is not much in your favour there. But I'm prepared to be humored.

Este

 

[Giordano]

The strangest thing just happened: with this thread's return to Conspiracy Theories (thanks, moderators, it deserves to be here) I inadvertently navigated to page 1, yet it took me a few minutes to realize it! Clayton's been recycling the same bogus arguments so long I couldn't tell the difference at first.

 

[TheRedWorm]

Could you explain what GWS has to do with autism, please?



How does this count as evidence for a link between autism and vaccination, CM?

Even if we grant the link, isn't a small chance of 'catching' autism much less worse than catching the childhood diseases that we now vaccinate against? That is another query that Clay refuses to answer.

 

[pakeha]

Even if we grant the link, isn't a small chance of 'catching' autism much less worse than catching the childhood diseases that we now vaccinate against? That is another query that Clay refuses to answer.

That's something I've never considered.
Is there even the slightest possibility there's a link between vaxx and autism?
I mean to say, outside of the anti-vaxxers' world.