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Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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pakeha said:
Albinism is world-wide.
Blue/green eyes, too.

Caused by vaxx, CM?
Click to expand...

Ah, yes. Clearly those spontaneously erupted around the globe and are not genetic at all. Anyone who disagrees simply has not seen "da troof".

Help me out, should "troof" be capitalised?
 
Giordano said:
It must be very difficult for you to see such stupidity all around you, most especially among trained scientists, but I guess that is the burden of have such a high intellect. As a result I realize that it is often a waste of your time to read the posts of those of us here with lower intelligence than yourself. It is also a waste of your time to read even basic articles about biology and genetics, given that you can deduce, using common sense, everthing that took scientists centuries to discover. But I humbly urge you to review the prior posts in this thread that explained to you genetics versus inheritance, and the concept of how mutations occur and spread. You might then be less outraged by the Scientific American article.

Until then, you might think about trisomy 21/Down's Syndrome. Scientists claim that it a genetic disorder, yet is worldwide. Stupid , yes?
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Genes don't swim from continent to continent.

http://journal.livingfood.us/2011/1...ses-and-disorders-than-unvaccinated-children/
Advance Notice on U.S Vaccination Survey / German Study: Vaccinated Children Have More Than Twice the Diseases and Disorders Than Unvaccinated Children
October 9, 2011


And now on to the headlined survey:

This survey was A German study released in September 2011 of about 8000 UNVACCINATED children, newborn to 19 years, show vaccinated children have more than twice the diseases and disorders than unvaccinated children.

The results are presented in the bar chart below; the complete data and study results are here. The data is compared to the national German KIGGS health study of the children in the general population. Most of the respondents to the survey were from the U.S. (Click on the chart to see it better)


Salzburger Study

Results: of 1004 unvaccinated children, had

Asthma, 0% (8-12% in the normal population)

A-topic dermatitis 1.2% (10-20% in the normal population)

Allergies 3% (25% in the normal population)

ADHD 0.79% (5-10%) in children
Click to expand...
 
CM, I didn't see that internet survey included autism.
Why do you think a survey of parents' assessment of of their childrens' illnesses proves anything?
 
catsmate1 said:
Given that the USA say 350-400 deaths per annum from measles from 1950-1965 your claim is rubbish.
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Clayton Moore said:
What does that tripe even mean?
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It means that in the USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) there were 350-400 deaths "annually", or "each year" (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/per_annum) from a disease called "measles" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles) during the "time period" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_period) in question.

I think Catsmate1 is suggesting that the fact that measles killed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death) thousands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousands) of people during the 1950s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950s) would suggest that, contrary to your previous claim, measles would not have been considered to be harmless by everyone in the 50s. For one thing, it would be rather odd if people who had personal experience of bereavement due to measles thought it was harmless.

If you're wondering why Catsmate1 made that point, I'm happy to be able to remind you that you wrote earlier that "Nobody in the 50s thought measles was even close to dangerous." You probably don't need reminding though (you certainly shouldn't, anyway), given that Catsmate1 had quoted your comment in their post.

If there's anything else in the thread you're having trouble understanding just ask. I'm sure the other posters will be happy to help.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Genes don't swim from continent to continent.

http://journal.livingfood.us/2011/1...ses-and-disorders-than-unvaccinated-children/
Advance Notice on U.S Vaccination Survey / German Study: Vaccinated Children Have More Than Twice the Diseases and Disorders Than Unvaccinated Children
October 9, 2011
Click to expand...

Re genes- do you really not get it, or are you just pretending? I and others here have repeatedly given you examples of genetic diseases that are present throughout the world, several of which have increased in frequency of diagnosis as the population has aged and/or had children later in their lives. Downs Syndrome for one. In many cases these are de novo mutations- they don't need to spread. But for your broader enlightenment, I will point out that you are correct: human genes generally don't swim. Instead they take airplanes, ships, trains, and cars (think about it if you don't understand that statement right away).

As to the "survey." The huge flaws in self-reporting, especially from biased populations, have already been described to you in your other thread. Here is one general discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-report_study.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Genes don't swim from continent to continent.

http://journal.livingfood.us/2011/1...ses-and-disorders-than-unvaccinated-children/
Advance Notice on U.S Vaccination Survey / German Study: Vaccinated Children Have More Than Twice the Diseases and Disorders Than Unvaccinated Children
October 9, 2011
Click to expand...
Clayton asked me to ask you: do you have any USA studies?? Because Clayton doesn't trust any foreign studies (look up his opinion in this very thread if you don't believe me).
 
Giordano said:
Re genes- do you really not get it, or are you just pretending? I and others here have repeatedly given you examples of genetic diseases that are present throughout the world, several of which have increased in frequency of diagnosis as the population has aged and/or had children later in their lives. Downs Syndrome for one. In many cases these are de novo mutations- they don't need to spread. But for your broader enlightenment, I will point out that you are correct: human genes generally don't swim. Instead they take airplanes, ships, trains, and cars (think about it if you don't understand that statement right away).

As to the "survey." The huge flaws in self-reporting, especially from biased populations, have already been described to you in your other thread. Here is one general discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-report_study.
Click to expand...


Well, roughly 50% of them do...
 
Clayton Moore said:
Polio and diphtheria and others are not normal childhood diseases. Mumps and measles and chicken pox and others are.
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Wow - I cannot believe that anyone could be ignorant enough to actually write that :eye-poppi!
Clayton Moore, Polio, diphtheria, mumps, measles, chicken pox and others are childhood diseases.
Anyone can catch all of the diseases that you mention.
Anyone can catch any of the diseases for which vaccines are available.
Anyone who is vaccinated is highly unlikely to catch the disease for which they are vaccinated. Thus polio, diphtheria, mumps, measles, chicken pox are less frequent childhood diseases than before vaccines were available.
 
Clayton,
I've been thinking about your posts on the impact of diseases before and after vaccinations became widely available, and I think you might like a classic book called, "the Microbe Hunters," by Paul de Kruif. It is written in a quirky style, and directed toward a young person audience, but it is exciting, informative, and inspired many a student to become a microbiologist. I re-read it every few years. I come away everytime deeply thankful for the individuals who are the subject of the book, and whose work still serves to protect me and my family from fatal or crippling diseases. It might change your perspective..
 
Clayton,

Did you explain yet why foreign studies are okay if they are anti-fax but not if they are pro-vax?
 
Here is a vaccine question for you. How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?
 
Clayton Moore. How will you know if your child will be killed by a disease

Clayton Moore said:
Here is a vaccine question for you. How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?
Click to expand...
That is a rather silly question - No one can know this beforehand.
ETA: I hope that this does not mean that you are ignorant of the evidence that the effects of diseases that vaccines prevent are much worse than the relatively few side effects.

Here is a basic biology question for you, Clayton Moore. How will you know if your child will catch a disease that will seriously harm or even kill them?
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Here is a vaccine question for you. How will you know if your child has a serious side effect after receiving a vaccine/vaccines?
Click to expand...

Here's a question for you: are you ever planning to answer any of the questions i have asked YOU in this thread? Here are just three off the top of my head; Why are foreign studies only acceptable if they are anti-vax? What vaccines and vaccine schedules do you approve of? Can you come up with a better scheme for testing drugs than the multistep process I described to you in two of my prior posts?

But because this is meant to be a discussion, I will answer your question to show you how it is supposed to work.

If you mean how do I know in advance if my child might have a serious side effect from a vaccine, I can look it up in the package information or on line or ask my doctor; possible side effects and contraindications, and their likelihood, have already been evaluated from clinical testing and/or clinical reporting.

Or do you mean how do I know if my child is actually experiencing a serious side effect if it happens? That is a strange question! Could the answer possibly be that I would observe the serious side effect? Or are we back to your discredited idea that children run high fevers and convulsions that occur in their sleep so no one notices? If so, my children must have been very light sleepers, because any minor discomfort would wake them uo and make hem cry until I fixed it.
 
Giordano said:
Here's a question for you: are you ever planning to answer any of the questions i have asked YOU in this thread? Here are just three off the top of my head; Why are foreign studies only acceptable if they are anti-vax? What vaccines and vaccine schedules do you approve of? Can you come up with a better scheme for testing drugs than the multistep process I described to you in two of my prior posts?

But because this is meant to be a discussion, I will answer your question to show you how it is supposed to work.

If you mean how do I know in advance if my child might have a serious side effect from a vaccine, I can look it up in the package information or on line or ask my doctor; possible side effects and contraindications, and their likelihood, have already been evaluated from clinical testing and/or clinical reporting.

Or do you mean how do I know if my child is actually experiencing a serious side effect if it happens? That is a strange question! Could the answer possibly be that I would observe the serious side effect? Or are we back to your discredited idea that children run high fevers and convulsions that occur in their sleep so no one notices? If so, my children must have been very light sleepers, because any minor discomfort would wake them uo and make hem cry until I fixed it.
Click to expand...

So if your child/toddler has a serious side effect/affliction after a recent vaccine jab and
the package information or your doctor don't associate the side affect with the vaccine then the vaccine you suspected could not have caused the serious side affect that you've become aware of?


You are aware that the response almost everyone gets when they complain about a product is denial and assurance that all is OK?


In fact, weren't the initial thousands of GWS victims naysayed as malingerers?
 
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