LDS

[RandFan]

The Riddle of Epicurus

May Thy will, not mine, be done.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

 

[dafydd]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

In order to start your own religion for power and hopefully some cash.

 

[dafydd]

Thy will be done? If this god wills children to die then he needs to be kept away from children.

 

[RandFan]

Your own words confirm what RandFan has stated. Perhaps you can show how they can be parsed to mean something different from what the rest of us are seeing, or perhaps you'd like to simply retract the original statement by replacing it with one you feel better matches Mormon doctrine.

It's an ad hoc rationalization. When I was on my mission I had to address that question a lot. I would give the same answer as Janadele. It helps soothe cognitive dissonance.

One of the things that I like about humanism is that killing an innocent child is always wrong. No excuses allowed.

 

[jsfisher]

I doubt that any parents of a dead child would feel that the child had been blessed.

I had heard this death-is-a-blessing line once before by some Christian (extreme) fundamentalist spokesperson. Until now, I'd always thought that as just a one-off. Guess not.

 

[dafydd]

I had heard this death-is-a-blessing line once before by some Christian (extreme) fundamentalist spokesperson.

If death is such a blessing then why don't all the fundies top themselves?

 

[RandFan]

I had heard this death-is-a-blessing line once before by some Christian (extreme) fundamentalist spokesperson. Until now, I'd always thought that as just a one-off. Guess not.

From my experience it's pretty standard fare for Christian apologetics.

The Physical Death of Children is Not a Big Deal to God

 

[RandFan]

God has a thing for killing children:

In order to start your own religion for power and hopefully some cash.

Thy will be done? If this god wills children to die then he needs to be kept away from children.

• Noah's Ark.
• First born of Egypt.
• David's son (to punish David).

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

"Suckling", god ordered that nursing babies should be killed.

Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine:

There's lots more. See God Is Not Pro-Life.

 

[jsfisher]

From my experience it's pretty standard fare for Christian apologetics.

Well, that certainly goes way beyond the trip to heaven as the consolation prize (consolation as in consoling the parents).

 

[RandFan]

from the other thread:

I repeat: I did not "claim that it's a blessing to kill a child."

You found a silver lining to children who suffer and die. You did this to rescue your idea that your god is both good and just. A good and just being doesn't allow children to suffer and die if he can help it.

It is not necessary for us to live a long life. Those who do not, are blessed in that their trial is short...

 

[jsfisher]

You found a silver lining to children who suffer and die. You did this to rescue your idea that your god is both good and just. A good and just being doesn't allow children to suffer and die if he can help it.

Yes, she did, but apparently this is not so unique to Mormonism. We should probably move on to stay within the thread topic.

 

[AdMan]

May Thy will, not mine, be done.

Yeah, so a child dying is His fault.

A god like that is a piece of ****.

 

[abaddon]

May Thy will, not mine, be done.

Really?
Are these not your words?

It is not necessary for us to live a long life. Those who do not, are blessed in that their trial is short, with less mistakes to be accounted for... and in the case of a child under the age of eight, they have no sins to be judged on, and will inherit the highest degree that their pre existant life allows for.

There were no diseases in the Garden of Eden before sin was introduced to the world through Eve disobeying the instructions of our Heavenly Father.

It gets more difficult to dodge when your words are here for all to see, no?

 

[RandFan]

Yes, she did, but apparently this is not so unique to Mormonism. We should probably move on to stay within the thread topic.

That's fair. The point has been made. I'll stop swinging at this deceased equine.

 

[kerikiwi]

Rand... There is much I could say in response... but being restrained by the consequences of so doing, I shall merely affirm my disagreement with your posts.

Can you then address the barley question?
Surely you can do that without bringing down the wrath of something...

 

[kerikiwi]

May Thy will, not mine, be done.

It seems by this that you are giving your permission to god for him to do whatever he likes.
Two questions:
1. Why does he need your permission?
2. If the answer to 1. is 'he doesn't', why would you bother to give your permission for something he is going to do anyway?

 

[bruto]

May Thy will, not mine, be done.

Fine, but it's not really an answer to my question. What is the Mormon position on petitionary prayer? It's a thorny issue for many Christians. Many prominent Christians fudge the answer, I think, and simply count all prayers as fulfilled for the best even while expecting and even encouraging believers to ask for intervention. Post facto explanations and excuses always put the best light on unpredictable results. Others, recognizing the paradox or considering that God always knows best, discourage such prayers, suggesting that prayers are best used to express thanksgiving and the hope of guidance and inspiration. I am as yet unsure where the Mormon church stands on this issue, and while I don't suppose it is going to change any minds, you might consider it good practice to try expressing it in some way other than predigested quotations, in a language non Mormons can make sense of.

 

[Wolrab]

In order to start your own religion for power and hopefully some cash.

Don't forget the tail! Ol' Joey got himself a 14 year old, a couple of 16 and 17 year olds, and some young 20 somethings. It's always about the tail.

 

[jsfisher]

If I may summarize what I think I've learned about Joseph Smith: He was a convicted con-artist. He was charismatic and well-versed in a particular money digging scam that often involved burying ones head in a hat to exclude all light while gazing at a magical stone. At some point he was visited by an angel who eventually directed Smith to the location of a collection of gold plates. The plates (which would have weighed between 100 and 200 pounds, but where no problem for Smith to lug around) were inscribed with some variation of Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Smith translated the inscriptions with the aid of a hat and a stone or two.

Later, Smith produced other great works, including the Book of Abraham translated from ancient papyri. The Book of Abraham was truly an inspired marvel since none of Smith's translation corresponds to anything recorded on the actual papyri.

Smith's body of work includes descriptions of technologies, animals, and plant life that didn't exist when and where Smith claimed they did, making his master piece a true document of faith.

That about it?

 

[Quad4_72]

Never ceases to amaze me the crazy stuff people fall for.