LDS

[Hokulele]

Nay_Sayer: I am sure you are well aware that murder is a serious sin.

Unless God tells you to do so, of course.

 

[Craig4]

Explorer, You need first to understand the basics, and the Scriptures which have already been made available to you, before seeking further enlightenment. Baby steps first before marathon races

Why do you keep pointing to documents that contain obvious fabrications. You as much as admit they contain fabrications with your dismissive hand waving.

 

[RandFan]

Nay_Sayer: I am sure you are well aware that murder is a serious sin.

It's immoral even when god does it.

• Noah's Flood.
• First born of Egypt.
• Amalekite children.
• Moabite children.
• David's child with Bathsheba.

It's immoral to torture children with drowning in front of their mothers. It's inhumane to kill innocent children that have done nothing wrong.

 

[Craig4]

Nay_Sayer: I am sure you are well aware that murder is a serious sin.

What about lying? Would lying about having a revelation from a god count as a sin?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Perhaps posters who keeping asking foolish questions do not realise the meaning of "Scripture".

Apparently, "scripture" means a set of writings that no one is allowed to question or doubt, no matter how egregiously fraudulent or inaccurate they may be. Apparently, anyone who doesn't accept these writings without question, and points out the transparently obvious falsehoods that they contain, is labeled a "fool".

I long ago overcame my own indoctrination regarding the "virtue" of faith. I realized that any belief that had to be accepted without evidence, or in spite of contradictory evidence, was most likely not worth maintaining. If it was the truth, we wouldn't need faith.

 

[Craig4]

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/explanation?lang=eng

The Book of Mormon is a sacred record of peoples in ancient America, and was engraved upon sheets of metal...
In or about the year A.D. 421, Moroni, the last of the Nephite prophet-historians, sealed the sacred record and hid it up unto the Lord, to be brought forth in the latter days, as predicted by the voice of God through his ancient prophets. In A.D. 1823, this same Moroni, then a resurrected personage, visited the Prophet Joseph Smith and subsequently delivered the engraved plates to him.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/introduction?lang=eng
The Testimony of Eight Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

So what? If there's no cultivated barley in the New World prior to Columbus then no amount of signatures can make the BoM anything other than a shabby lie perpetrated by a base and decedent fraud.

 

[RandFan]

Unless God tells you to do so, of course.

Oh of course. Kill, kill, kill.

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Only a moral monster could tell someone to kill babies. Who kills babies and children? God.

 

[tsig]

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/explanation?lang=eng

The Book of Mormon is a sacred record of peoples in ancient America, and was engraved upon sheets of metal...
In or about the year A.D. 421, Moroni, the last of the Nephite prophet-historians, sealed the sacred record and hid it up unto the Lord, to be brought forth in the latter days, as predicted by the voice of God through his ancient prophets. In A.D. 1823, this same Moroni, then a resurrected personage, visited the Prophet Joseph Smith and subsequently delivered the engraved plates to him.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/introduction?lang=eng
The Testimony of Eight Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

First Joe says no one can see the plates and live then he shows them to witnesses. You don't see a contradiction here?

 

[tsig]

It's immoral even when god does it.

• Noah's Flood.
• First born of Egypt.
• Amalekite children.
• Moabite children.
• David's child with Bathsheba.

It's immoral to torture children with drowning in front of their mothers. It's inhumane to kill innocent children that have done nothing wrong.

Or When god's prophet orders it:

Mountain Meadows Massacre.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Explorer, You need first to understand the basics, and the Scriptures which have already been made available to you, before seeking further enlightenment. Baby steps first before marathon races

...so first, you have to accept that it is true, before it comes to seem true to you...

 

[Foster Zygote]

Unless God tells you to do so, of course.

It's too bad that God didn't tell William H. Dame that murder is a serious sin.

 

[Janadele]

Craig.. Barley is a great as a drink and as a natural thickener for soup. Through the ages from the time of Adam mankind has enjoyed the health benefits of Barley and other crops given to us from our loving Heavenly Father. There is no great mystery in this.

 

[Janadele]

The Prophet Joseph Smith’s own words about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are:

“On the evening of the … twenty-first of September [1823] … I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God. … While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do;
He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted Seers in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.

For the complete record, see Joseph Smith—History, in the Pearl of Great Price, and History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,volume 1, chapters 1 through 6.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Craig.. Barley is a great as a drink and as a natural thickener for soup. Through the ages from the time of Adam mankind has enjoyed the health benefits of Barley and other crops given to us from our loving Heavenly Father. There is no great mystery in this.

To use your word, nonsense.

Cultivated domestic barley is nearly as different form wild barley as teosinte is form maize or cultivated corn. There is not evidence, none, of the existence of cultivated barley (no art, no vessels, no records, no seeds, no pollen, no barley straw, not preserved remains, no recipes, nothing) before cultivated barley was introoduced by Europeans in the 15th and 16th centuries C.E.

Your "answer" does not address this...

 

[RandFan]

The Prophet Joseph Smith’s own words about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are:

“On the evening of the … twenty-first of September [1823] … I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God. … While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do;
He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted Seers in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.

For the complete record, see Joseph Smith—History, in the Pearl of Great Price, and History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,volume 1, chapters 1 through 6.

Hmmmm.....

source The earliest extant account of the First Vision was handwritten by Joseph Smith in 1832, but it was not published until 1965.[91]

[T]he Lord heard my cry in the wilderness and while in <the> attitude of calling upon the Lord <in the 16th year of my age> a pillar of fire light above the brightness of the sun at noon day come down from above and rested upon me and I was filled with the spirit of god and the <Lord> opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph <my son> thy sins are forgiven thee. go thy <way> walk in my statutes and keep my commandments behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world that all those who believe on my name may have Eternal life <behold> the world lieth in sin and at this time and none doeth good no not one they have turned aside from the gospel and keep not <my> commandments they draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me and mine anger is kindling against the inhabitants of the earth to visit them according to th[e]ir ungodliness and to bring to pass that which <hath> been spoken by the mouth of the prophets and Ap[o]stles behold and lo I come quickly as it [is] written of me in the cloud <clothed> in the glory of my Father . . . ."[92]
​

Unlike Smith's later accounts of the vision, the 1832 account emphasizes personal forgiveness and mentions neither an appearance of God the Father nor the phrase "This is my beloved Son, hear him." In the 1832 account, Smith also stated that before he experienced the First Vision, his own searching of the Scriptures had led him to the conclusion that mankind had "apostatized from the true and living faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the new testament."[93]

 

[RandFan]

There is no mystery.

Craig.. Barley is a great as a drink and as a natural thickener for soup. Through the ages from the time of Adam mankind has enjoyed the health benefits of Barley and other crops given to us from our loving Heavenly Father. There is no great mystery in this.

The BofM is wrong. There was no Barley in the New World and the BofM leaves out Maize as a staple crop.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Nay_Sayer: I am sure you are well aware that murder is a serious sin.

Not unless I'm blessing the child, To ensure he/she didn't grow up to do evil.

 

[RandFan]

...so first, you have to accept that it is true, before it comes to seem true to you...

Most cults have this "milk before meat" doctrine.

Milk before meat (Mormon usage) or Gradient (Scientology usage) are two of many terms used in cults and other authoritarian settings to describe the process of concealing doctrine from outsiders and new inductees.[1] Since many such groups base themselves on principles that outsiders often find outlandish, such groups often choose to spoon-feed doctrine to inductees rather than letting them study it independently, in hopes that the extreme points of doctrine will be much more acceptable to the new believer after a period of conditioning brainwashing (and in Scientology's case some good ol' money spendin' so the investment is not just emotional).

 

[Cleon]

Craig.. Barley is a great as a drink and as a natural thickener for soup. Through the ages from the time of Adam mankind has enjoyed the health benefits of Barley and other crops given to us from our loving Heavenly Father. There is no great mystery in this.

Barley has been used as a staple crop from the levant to Europe - but in the Americas, the staple crop was maize. Not barley.

 

[Shalamar]

The Prophet Joseph Smith’s own words about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are:

“On the evening of the … twenty-first of September [1823] … I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God. … While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor. He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do;
He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted Seers in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.

For the complete record, see Joseph Smith—History, in the Pearl of Great Price, and History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,volume 1, chapters 1 through 6.

I would like to see these gold plates. Where might I view them?