Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

[remo]

marmite and bunny-rabbit la la.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5700758_extract-sulfur-gypsum.html
I see.
"Heat the gypsum in a kiln to 600 to 900 degrees C in the presence of a reducing atmosphere such as hydrogen or carbon monoxide to produce calcium oxide and sulfur dioxide. Using hydrogen, for example,CaSO₄ + H₂ ' CaO + H₂O + SO₂Thus the gypsum is converted to calcium oxide (lime) and sulfur dioxide, both very useful products. The sulfur dioxide can then be further processed in at least two commercially profitable ways.
Employ a catalyst made up of vanadium pentoxide and an alkali metal sulfate supported on small silica beads at high temperature. The sulfur dioxide will be converted into sulfur trioxide, which is to be dissolved in 98 percent sulfuric acid. That sulfur trioxide reacts with the 2 percent moisture to form additional sulfuric acid. Catalytically reduce the sulfur dioxide into elemental sulfur. The U.S. Department of Energy describes the use of a cerium oxide catalyst to reduce a mixture of sulfur dioxide and carbon monoxide to form sulfur and carbon dioxide. In this reaction, the carbon monoxide is oxidized to carbon dioxide; hence the overall reaction is a reduction-oxidation reaction, or REDOX"

At what time during the split-seconds of almost free fall of the great towers do you think the wallboard went thru this process ?

How do you get elemental sulfur all over Manhattan in ppm from wallboard in a DUST storm if you have to go thru a process as complicated as that begun and ended in the amount of time it took to read this sentence? And in mid-air??
At what part of the process would the elemental sulfur be formed inside the iron rich microspheres? I'm no expert, but maybe at the same temperature and time the intergranular attack on the steel took place??
Oystein, you ask how long the demolition sequences 'would take' as if they hadn't. As if its a question?
Just watch any one of the films taken on the day.
Thats how long it took. You don't even have to guess.

 

[NoahFence]

http://www.ehow.com/how_5700758_extract-sulfur-gypsum.html
I see.
"Heat the gypsum in a kiln to 600 to 900 degrees C in the presence of a reducing atmosphere such as hydrogen or carbon monoxide to produce calcium oxide and sulfur dioxide. Using hydrogen, for example,CaSO₄ + H₂ ' CaO + H₂O + SO₂Thus the gypsum is converted to calcium oxide (lime) and sulfur dioxide, both very useful products. The sulfur dioxide can then be further processed in at least two commercially profitable ways.
Employ a catalyst made up of vanadium pentoxide and an alkali metal sulfate supported on small silica beads at high temperature. The sulfur dioxide will be converted into sulfur trioxide, which is to be dissolved in 98 percent sulfuric acid. That sulfur trioxide reacts with the 2 percent moisture to form additional sulfuric acid. Catalytically reduce the sulfur dioxide into elemental sulfur. The U.S. Department of Energy describes the use of a cerium oxide catalyst to reduce a mixture of sulfur dioxide and carbon monoxide to form sulfur and carbon dioxide. In this reaction, the carbon monoxide is oxidized to carbon dioxide; hence the overall reaction is a reduction-oxidation reaction, or REDOX"

At what time during the split-seconds of almost free fall of the great towers do you think the wallboard went thru this process ?

How do you get elemental sulfur all over Manhattan in ppm from wallboard in a DUST storm if you have to go thru a process as complicated as that begun and ended in the amount of time it took to read this sentence? And in mid-air??
At what part of the process would the elemental sulfur be formed inside the iron rich microspheres? I'm no expert, but maybe at the same temperature and time the intergranular attack on the steel took place??
Oystein, you ask how long the demolition sequences 'would take' as if they hadn't. As if its a question?
Just watch any one of the films taken on the day.
Thats how long it took. You don't even have to guess.

 

[Spanx]

http://www.ehow.com/how_5700758_extract-sulfur-gypsum.html
I see.
"Heat the gypsum in a kiln to 600 to 900 degrees C in the presence of a reducing atmosphere such as hydrogen or carbon monoxide to produce calcium oxide and sulfur dioxide. Using hydrogen, for example,CaSO₄ + H₂ ' CaO + H₂O + SO₂Thus the gypsum is converted to calcium oxide (lime) and sulfur dioxide, both very useful products. The sulfur dioxide can then be further processed in at least two commercially profitable ways.
Employ a catalyst made up of vanadium pentoxide and an alkali metal sulfate supported on small silica beads at high temperature. The sulfur dioxide will be converted into sulfur trioxide, which is to be dissolved in 98 percent sulfuric acid. That sulfur trioxide reacts with the 2 percent moisture to form additional sulfuric acid. Catalytically reduce the sulfur dioxide into elemental sulfur. The U.S. Department of Energy describes the use of a cerium oxide catalyst to reduce a mixture of sulfur dioxide and carbon monoxide to form sulfur and carbon dioxide. In this reaction, the carbon monoxide is oxidized to carbon dioxide; hence the overall reaction is a reduction-oxidation reaction, or REDOX"

At what time during the split-seconds of almost free fall of the great towers do you think the wallboard went thru this process ?

How do you get elemental sulfur all over Manhattan in ppm from wallboard in a DUST storm if you have to go thru a process as complicated as that begun and ended in the amount of time it took to read this sentence? And in mid-air??
At what part of the process would the elemental sulfur be formed inside the iron rich microspheres? I'm no expert, but maybe at the same temperature and time the intergranular attack on the steel took place??
Oystein, you ask how long the demolition sequences 'would take' as if they hadn't. As if its a question?
Just watch any one of the films taken on the day.
Thats how long it took. You don't even have to guess.

Thanks Remo, this post explains alot to me. I now have to agree it could only be thermite. You have explained things in such a manner that even I can understand.

911 was an inside job

 

[Spanx]

barnett is blowing hot sulfur dioxide up your buttocks with the whole wallboard scenario!

Would you care to explain why ?

 

[ozeco41]

Thanks Remo, this post explains alot to me. I now have to agree it could only be thermite. You have explained things in such a manner that even I can understand.

911 was an inside job

Have you debunked/rebutted the Marmite Hypothesis?

 

[Oystein]

Oystein, you ask how long the demolition sequences 'would take' as if they hadn't. As if its a question?
Just watch any one of the films taken on the day.
Thats how long it took. You don't even have to guess.

Well, no. Bare-assed assertions don't fly around here. Go back to 911Blogger, that censorship-protected echo-chamber. It suits your fact-free, logic-free, knowledge-free, skill-free approach better.

And I ask a whole lot more.
You have been able to answer zero questions.

So you're out.

 

[Oystein]

[qimg]http://conleys.com.au/smilies/thumbup.gif[/qimg]


Have you debunked/rebutted the Marmite Hypothesis?

And don't forget the fried-okra-hypothesis

 

[Miragememories]

Well, no. Bare-assed assertions don't fly around here. Go back to 911Blogger, that censorship-protected echo-chamber. It suits your fact-free, logic-free, knowledge-free, skill-free approach better.

And I ask a whole lot more.
You have been able to answer zero questions.

So you're out.

Censorship?

Echo-chamber?

I guess it's not much fun posting in a forum that can't be 'gamed'.

MM

 

[TheRedWorm]

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/dec/wastediv/recycling/gypsum.pdf

http://www.americangypsum.com/pdfs/msds.pdf



http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...dhYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LPADAAAAIBAJ&pg=3216,4182102

http://www.sesi.net/recycling_drywall.html

I won't even bother going into how SO2 is released at even lower temperatures in a reducing atmosphere as I think the point is proven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1zLIqitCqg

Doesn't this perfectly encapsulate this entire sub-forum? Sunstealer posts actual references, truther responds with a yoooooooooootooooooooooooooooobe.

 

[Sunstealer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1zLIqitCqg

The above video is nonsense and this has been explained to you at least 50 times before. Jon Cole, just like you, has no idea what he's talking about.

Thermate cannot produce the sulphides found along grain boundaries by solid state diffusion as evidenced here.

The clues are in the phrase solid state diffusion, namely the material is solid, never been liquid and diffusion namely takes time over hours not seconds.

Thermite or thermate acts over seconds producing temperatures high enough to melt the steel material in bulk. The above photomicrographs would be impossible if the material had been liquid.

There is no way that thermate can produce the sulphides seen in the grain boundaries by solid state diffusion. There simply isn't enough time during reaction phase for this to occur. You have been told this a thousand times.

If you think it can then it's upto you to show this. Make up thermate and ignite it on some steel, take sections of the steel, mount, polish and etch those sections and show that it can. You nor any other truther will ever do the simple experiment.

Lastly you support Harrit et al. Please point out where the Sulphur is in the following EDX spectra:

It's not there in any quantity. As usual you are claiming thermite and thermate did the same thing without any evidence for either. Don't just link to youtube, use your own words to make an argument. You can't because you don't understand a word about the subject as has been shown over and over and over again yet you still come back with nonsense that's been debunked dozens of times.

 

[Sunstealer]

Have you debunked/rebutted the Marmite Hypothesis?

I did this one ages ago.

 

[ozeco41]

I did this one ages ago.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=181&pictureid=4056[/qimg]

Curse.

Looks like I have to deploy the big one.

To avoid wasting bandwidth I may plead nolo contendere

Or should I join Oystein in the action with his "fried-okra-hypothesis " and try a "cut throat defence"?

(Like "It wuz him, not me, yer honour.")

Decisions...decisions...decisions....

 

[Senenmut]

The above video is nonsense and this has been explained to you at least 50 times before. Jon Cole, just like you, has no idea what he's talking about.

i think he did a better job than the fire wise professor in trying to recreate the office/debris fire that supposedly created the eutectic and "corroded" the steel.

Thermate cannot produce the sulphides found along grain boundaries by solid state diffusion as evidenced here.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=181&pictureid=948[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=181&pictureid=945[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=181&pictureid=4465[/qimg]

The clues are in the phrase solid state diffusion, namely the material is solid, never been liquid and diffusion namely takes time over hours not seconds.

i think it happened over mins but the buildings did collapse and the steel did lay in a heap of office material that did burn. so yeah, they did not cool down for hrs or days. so the diffusion you see and speak of did take hrs to occur.

Thermite or thermate acts over seconds producing temperatures high enough to melt the steel material in bulk. The above photomicrographs would be impossible if the material had been liquid.

i think it was used alittle differently. namely in those red gray chips that were hundreds of layers thick. they were pre made and one could probably roll X amount of layers of sulfur between layers of the red/gray material depending on the thickness of the steel. im sure one could easily produce sulfur that rolls out like tape with some sort of binder that holds the sulfur together. anyway, i think the device is more like a blowtorch that attacks the steel in that manner. not by just laying on the steel and reacting.

If you think it can then it's upto you to show this. Make up thermate and ignite it on some steel, take sections of the steel, mount, polish and etch those sections and show that it can. You nor any other truther will ever do the simple experiment.

actually i am working on something. got any idea where i could buy some magnetite that is as thin as the gray layer?? thats all i am looking for now. i believe you stated that the gray layer was magnetite.

Lastly you support Harrit et al. Please point out where the Sulphur is in the following EDX spectra:

i told ya how i think the sulfur got into the chips. thats just speculation. once the chips ignited, some blew off. thats what jones and crew found.

check out this pic. it is telling. prof astaneh took it soon after he arrived b/c its still on a truck bed. it looks as though the steel got attacked at the connection from both sides of the I beam. see how the bottom looks like a razor's edge. super thin...and some gone! IMO some accelerant device was placed on the I beam on both sides with the "torch" facing the direction of the connecion at an angle.

 

[Axxman300]

check out this pic. it is telling. prof astaneh took it soon after he arrived b/c its still on a truck bed. it looks as though the steel got attacked at the connection from both sides of the I beam. see how the bottom looks like a razor's edge. super thin...and some gone! IMO some accelerant device was placed on the I beam on both sides with the "torch" facing the direction of the connecion at an angle.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_2854449b6c54b826e6.jpg[/qimg]

Wow, cool beans.

Now please tell us which building it came from (WTC-1,2,3,4,5,6,or 7). Then tell where in the particular building the beam was located. Then where was it's approximate location in the pile where it was pulled from?

When you can answer all those questions - then you can tell us if it's strange or not.

 

[Spanx]

i think he did a better job than the fire wise professor in trying to recreate the office/debris fire that supposedly created the eutectic and "corroded" the steel.


i think it happened over mins but the buildings did collapse and the steel did lay in a heap of office material that did burn. so yeah, they did not cool down for hrs or days. so the diffusion you see and speak of did take hrs to occur.


i think it was used alittle differently. namely in those red gray chips that were hundreds of layers thick. they were pre made and one could probably roll X amount of layers of sulfur between layers of the red/gray material depending on the thickness of the steel. im sure one could easily produce sulfur that rolls out like tape with some sort of binder that holds the sulfur together. anyway, i think the device is more like a blowtorch that attacks the steel in that manner. not by just laying on the steel and reacting.


actually i am working on something. got any idea where i could buy some magnetite that is as thin as the gray layer?? thats all i am looking for now. i believe you stated that the gray layer was magnetite.


i told ya how i think the sulfur got into the chips. thats just speculation. once the chips ignited, some blew off. thats what jones and crew found.

check out this pic. it is telling. prof astaneh took it soon after he arrived b/c its still on a truck bed. it looks as though the steel got attacked at the connection from both sides of the I beam. see how the bottom looks like a razor's edge. super thin...and some gone! IMO some accelerant device was placed on the I beam on both sides with the "torch" facing the direction of the connecion at an angle.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_2854449b6c54b826e6.jpg[/qimg]

I think someone is doing an awful lot thinking and coming out with a complete load of ************

But I could be wrong, usually if it looks like it and smells like it

 

[swright777]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1zLIqitCqg

From that video:

... explosive nano-thermite ...

I guess they still don't get it. And I find it hard to take these scienticians seriously when they can't get the use of then and than right.

 

[Ivan Kminek]

actually i am working on something. got any idea where i could buy some magnetite that is as thin as the gray layer?? thats all i am looking for now. i believe you stated that the gray layer was magnetite.

Sigh... very apparently, gray layers (magnetite or similar oxide) are scales of oxidized (and painted) WTC steel. You don't need to "buy" it, just go outside and look at some rusted steel objects in your neighbourhood - you will find such iron oxide scales for sure quite soon

 

[Senenmut]

Wow, cool beans.

Now please tell us which building it came from (WTC-1,2,3,4,5,6,or 7). Then tell where in the particular building the beam was located. Then where was it's approximate location in the pile where it was pulled from?

When you can answer all those questions - then you can tell us if it's strange or not.

if we can get astaneh to start talking about those beams that showed steel wastage then maybe we could figure it out.
from an article:
"Dr. Astaneh-Asl, a professor of structural engineering at the University of California at Berkeley, changed out of his nightclothes and went downstairs for a closer look. Over the next few nights, he cataloged 30 to 40 of the mighty beams and columns as trucks stopped in front of the hotel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/science/scarred-steel-holds-clues-and-remedies.html?pagewanted=all

that piece of steel pictured was on the back of a truck... probably one he catalogued.

 

[Senenmut]

Sigh... very apparently, gray layers (magnetite or similar oxide) are scales of oxidized (and painted) WTC steel. You don't need to "buy" it, just go outside and look at some rusted steel objects in your neighbourhood - you will find such iron oxide scales for sure quite soon

remeber the multiple layer chips. i belive that there were multiple gray layers. i think one layer was high in carbon too. the oxide scales you speak of would not occur except close to the steel.

 

[Miragememories]

"if we can get astaneh to start talking about those beams that showed steel wastage then maybe we could figure it out.
from an article:
"Dr. Astaneh-Asl, a professor of structural engineering at the University of California at Berkeley, changed out of his nightclothes and went downstairs for a closer look. Over the next few nights, he cataloged 30 to 40 of the mighty beams and columns as trucks stopped in front of the hotel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/science/scarred-steel-holds-clues-and-remedies.html?pagewanted=all

that piece of steel pictured was on the back of a truck... probably one he catalogued."

Nice find Senenmut.

A professor of structural engineering, has unimpeded access to WTC steel, transported fresh from Ground Zero, two weeks after 9/11.

The importance of his on-the-record observations cannot be ignored.

"One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized."

bolding is mine

MM