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Janadele said:
As we progress in our understanding more enlightenment is given. That does not mean eternal principles change. We will always be the same gender, which will always be the gender of our Spirit and our Intelligence also. These eternal truths do not change.
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That sounds like an endorsement for sex change surgery, to bring the body in line with the gender of the "spirit" and the intelligence.
 
I wish I could remember the title....Years ago I took an excellent book out of the library, which dealt with all the "alternate" historical myths of ancient America. That was the first half of the book. The second half gave the actual pre-history, so far as science had been able to determine.
In the first half, amid the myths of Viking colonies in the Midwest and Chinese visits to the West coast and all that stuff, the author detailed the Mormon mythology and the facts surrounding Mr. Smith.
A completely unvarnished account, including the fact that Smith was well-known as a charlatan in the area and a rather hilarious account of the mysteriously-disappearing golden plates and all...
But even funnier was that originally Smith had Jesus appearing to the large population of white folks who were dwelling in N. America at the time. No bones about it... White guys.
Possibly one of the "lost tribes" (how those folks got to be Caucasian was not explained...)

And, how the LDS was forced to re-write (oh, excuse...Have more "revalations") the Book of Mormon to re-cast these individuals as Indians of some sort, since no trace of the Caucasian folks was ever found....
All made up of whole cloth, of course... The author explained that it was common thinking back then that the "primitive savages" who inhabited America could not possibly have been responsible for such megalithic structures as the "mounds". Such massive structures (and the many fine artifacts contained therein...) could only have been produced by folks who were smarter... More advanced... Whiter.
The notion that Amerinds had thriving and advanced cultures prior to the arrival of Europeans did not occur... Mostly since the vast majority of the indigenous people had been wiped out by European diseases before ever the move West began to take off.

Mormonism is almost as much fun as Scientology, and indeed they would seem to share some ideas.....
 
The fact that millions of people in the United States believe the Book of Mormon is literal history is a stunning indictment of what schools teach (or rather don't teach) about the history of North America.
 
RandFan said:
I disagree. Anyone who follows the teaching of Christ, IMO, are free to all themselves Christian. We've debated this many times. I find it a bit of a no true Scotsman to accuse Mormons of not being Christians.

We can disagree though. :)
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Just look at the incredible variety of Christianities that were around in the first few centuries C.E. It's virtually certain that the historical Jeshua ben Joseph would be apoplectic over the orthodox Christianity that we are familiar with today.
 
Foster Zygote said:
Just look at the incredible variety of Christianities that were around in the first few centuries C.E. It's virtually certain that the historical Jeshua ben Joseph would be apoplectic over the orthodox Christianity that we are familiar with today.
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Agreed. Good point.
 
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Foster Zygote said:
Just look at the incredible variety of Christianities that were around in the first few centuries C.E. It's virtually certain that the historical Jeshua ben Joseph would be apoplectic over the orthodox Christianity that we are familiar with today.
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Yup. If "Christianity" can encompass everything from the Gnostics to mega-churches, I don't see any good reason why Mormonism would be excluded.
 
ShadowSot:
Janadele said:
That the responsibility of the Priesthood was withheld from worthy males of Negro descent for a short period of time, was for a purpose known only to the Lord. It was His decision and His alone and not for mere mortals to question... nor is it their business how the Lord directs His Church.
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Janadele said:
Despite the hype and misreporting, nothing has changed in Latter-day Saint doctrine regarding same sex attraction, nor will it. The recent announcement was to assure the family of a person who may be struggling with this trial, and the individual themselves, that help is available and providing they do not act on such thoughts they are still welcome within the Church. This has always been the official LDS position.
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ShadowSot said:
Especially as the Church has changed their minds on both dark skinned peoples and taken the first steps on changing their minds on homosexuals.
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No Pup, it is not.
Pup said:
That sounds like an endorsement for sex change surgery, to bring the body in line with the gender of the "spirit" and the intelligence.
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Janadele said:
As we progress in our understanding more enlightenment is given. That does not mean eternal principles change. We will always be the same gender, which will always be the gender of our Spirit and our Intelligence also. These eternal truths do not change.
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Spirits have penises and vaginas. I had no idea spirits had sex, but apparently, they do. (if they existed, that is.)

Janadele, what to spirit penises excrete upon climax? What is spiritual semen called?
 
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Janadele said:
ShadowSot:
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Which, frankly, is a load of horse hockey.

Look, being familiar with your style of posting, I know attempting to engage you on this topic is pointless.
At least on this topic you're as responsive as a robot, unable or unwilling to respond to anything outside of the strict parameters of the LDS website you continue to link to.
Hence why you've still not addressed the issue of hermaphrodites.

Which, sadly, demonstrates some of the worst damages of religion.
 
Where's the beef?

Janadele,

This is a skeptics site. Most of us have researched and studied skepticism and critical thinking and most of us are familiar with con games, frauds, mountebanks, charlatans, etc..

You've said absolutely nothing to separate you from any other claim that lacks evidence.
 
RandFan said:
You've said absolutely nothing to separate you from any other claim that lacks evidence.
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Janadele hasn't said anything new outside of what, three posts now? Four? The rest are just quoting herself (I think it's a her, anyway).
 
Bikewer said:
(snip)
But even funnier was that originally Smith had Jesus appearing to the large population of white folks who were dwelling in N. America at the time. No bones about it... White guys.
Possibly one of the "lost tribes" (how those folks got to be Caucasian was not explained...)

And, how the LDS was forced to re-write (oh, excuse...Have more "revalations") the Book of Mormon to re-cast these individuals as Indians of some sort, since no trace of the Caucasian folks was ever found....
All made up of whole cloth, of course... The author explained that it was common thinking back then that the "primitive savages" who inhabited America could not possibly have been responsible for such megalithic structures as the "mounds". Such massive structures (and the many fine artifacts contained therein...) could only have been produced by folks who were smarter... More advanced... Whiter.
The notion that Amerinds had thriving and advanced cultures prior to the arrival of Europeans did not occur... Mostly since the vast majority of the indigenous people had been wiped out by European diseases before ever the move West began to take off.
(snip)
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Comedian Tim Wilson calls it Jesus, The Western.
 
Janadele said:
The proof is within you.

Intelligence, or the light of truth was not created nor made. The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
One who organizes materials in a completely new way, by organizing the existing matter available, is a creator.

The creation was twofold—first spiritual, secondly temporal.

The glory of God is intelligence. We were all at different stages of progression in our pre mortal existence, and of graded intelligences. The veil which cloaks our rememberances allows recognition of the truths we knew and also understanding of Eternal Laws... if we will listen.
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Empty, meaningless words and phrases, meant to sound profound.

Guess we can't expect more from a proponent of Joseph Smith's nonsense.

Mark Twain, quite right on The Book of Mormon:

The book seems to be merely a prosy detail of imaginary history, with the Old Testament for a model; followed by a tedious plagiarism of the New Testament. The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint, old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James’s translation of the Scriptures; and the result is a mongrel — half modern glibness, and half ancient simplicity and gravity. The latter is awkward and constrained; the former natural, but grotesque by the contrast. Whenever he found his speech growing too modern — which was about every sentence or two — he ladled in a few such Scriptural phrases as ‘exceeding sore,’ ‘and it came to pass,’ etc., and made things satisfactory again. ‘And it came to pass’ was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet.
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Yes they do Bruto, and it is interesting. No, I am not in "Mormon Country"... I am an Australian, in Australia. However, on my visits to the US I have followed the LDS historic trail, including Benson :)
bruto said:
Entirely non religious post here, but Janadele, I live in Benson, Vermont. As you may know, the Mormons came from Vermont, and in Benson it turns out is a building that was briefly one of the very first Mormon churches before the pilgrimage west. There's a book by Erik Barnouw (I think that's the spelling) called House With a Past, relating his experience after buying a little stone house on Temple Road, and his research into the early history of the Mormons, among others. I don't know how difficult it might be to find a copy, but if you're in Mormon country it might be easier. It's pretty interesting. It seems our sleepy little area was once a hotbed of religious fervor and dissension, the jumping off place for "the burned-over district" not just for Mormons but all sorts of religious nonconformists. I think the Mormons began in Northern Vermont, and so did the Oneida Perfectionists. Practically a stone's throw from where the Benson Mormons headed west across the ice of Lake Champlain is the William Miller Chapel, where the Seventh-Day Adventists came into being.

So, not so important, but I thought you'd find it amusing how the twists and turns of history connect the most diverse places.
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Bikewer,AdMan, JeanFromBNA, Hud: Regurgitated anti Mormon lies and misleading false propaganda is not on topic to an LDS thread.
 
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