John Edward - psychic or what?

[Resume]

Let's not get away from the fact that neither of those authors or any of you will admit to being in this group of morons who changed their stories about where they were on 9/11. Why would you expect me to concede this as what happened when I remember that morning very clearly?

"I know that I am not remembering the event (911) as much as my last act of remembering it . . . it's the assembly -the resulting edit- that might not bear much resemblance to how things actually were."

What do you think the author meant by the boldened? Don't you claim to have above average reading speed with good comprehension?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Ignoring most of the straw men and red herrings in batvette's last post, changing details of a story over time does not make one a moron. It makes one human.

Maybe.

But can you find Rhode Island on a map?

 

[kerikiwi]

Let's not get away from the fact that neither of those authors or any of you will admit to being in this group of morons who changed their stories about where they were on 9/11.

Did you actually read the articles? I ask because you continue to show a thorough misunderstanding of what was said in them.

 

[pakeha]

I stated I saw the first plane's hit as reported. i.e; the report of the first plane's hit.
Please don't think word play can make a point when none exists.

To tell the truth, batvette, it's pretty clear you're changing your story, especially since no footage of that first hit was shown til the day after, but at the end of the day, it's hardly important, is it?


As carlitos wrote:

...changing details of a story over time does not make one a moron. It makes one human.

 

[batvette]

"I know that I am not remembering the event (911) as much as my last act of remembering it . . . it's the assembly -the resulting edit- that might not bear much resemblance to how things actually were."

What do you think the author meant by the boldened? Don't you claim to have above average reading speed with good comprehension?

The claim was where people were and what they were doing when they heard about 9/11. He states that with no doubt to its accuracy. He then surrounds it with vague hints of doubt to support the premise of his article while not having to actually include himself in the percentage of people who made up or forgot ****. A group you don't seem to want to include yourself in either. I've explained this over and over, okay?

Your argument is complete baloney, arguing I cannot recall a simple event. The way I told it is the way it went down. End of story.

 

[Garrette]

The claim was where people were and what they were doing when they heard about 9/11. He states that with no doubt to its accuracy. He then surrounds it with vague hints of doubt to support the premise of his article while not having to actually include himself in the percentage of people who made up or forgot ****. A group you don't seem to want to include yourself in either. I've explained this over and over, okay?

Your argument is complete baloney, arguing I cannot recall a simple event. The way I told it is the way it went down. End of story.

No.

We are not arguing you cannot recall a simple event. We are recalling that mistaken memory is more plausible an explanation than telepathy, even when you are absolutely certain of your memory's infallibility.

 

[batvette]

What has been introduced is the surprisingly mundane and disappointing fact that memories are not as reliable as we think, even those memories that seem like they must be reliable because they are associated with memorable events and comprise emotionally powerful images. No one here can say exactly what happened; no one is claiming to. That, however, does not diminish the argument. There are myriad variations of what might have happened; your telepathic version is only one, while the remainder are mundane.

And for the record, the reliance on eye witness testimony has long come under attack for just the reasons discussed here -- it is unreliable. Victory is far from won, but the science is still solid.

ETA: In response to your claim that no one has admitted to being in the "group of morons," you are wrong on at least two counts. First, no one except you has called them morons, and given your earlier indignation at what you mistakenly called an ad hominem, it doesn't do much for your credibility. Second, some one in this thread has already admitted that he accepts his memory might be mistaken in regard to 9/11. Add me to that group. I have a strong memory of it, but I may be wrong. Even if I have the general context correct, the details could easily be wrong. Same for the Challenger disaster and a few others.

Okay so tell us exactly what the difference was between where you really where and what you were doing when you heard about 9/11, and the distorted version you believe you've been telling people recently.

No vague BS about "I could be wrong". Were you at work, sitting at your desk? This is not difficult. It was a work day, we know what time it happened, there would be a specific place you would normally be at that time. If something unusual pre-empted this routine you'd know it.

Face it, the argument is stupid. I know EXACTLY where I was and what I was doing and it's NEVER had reason to change. But then I don't make up or embellish stories to be dramatic. That's not a character trait of people with ADHD, and that's not how my memory works. If I tell someone a story I don't tell that same person that same story three more times in as many months. A lot of people do that. You obviously have no clue how an ADHD mind functions. We walk around with a series of memory gaps in our mundane activities of the day. The most common is having something in your hand and setting it down and not remembering where that was one minute later.

An important event, a traumatic accident, things like that, once it's locked in long term storage it doesn't degrade ever.

Taken with the fact I verified this event with this woman both that night and several weeks later, so if there was any discrepancy she'd have pointed it out, this is beyond absurd.

 

[Garrette]

Okay so tell us exactly what the difference was between where you really where and what you were doing when you heard about 9/11, and the distorted version you believe you've been telling people recently.

You have trumpeted your reading comprehension, but it seems to fail you quite frequently. It is a bit silly to ask someone to point out exactly where an error is wrong when all they know is that it might be. Plus, I said I would not be surprised to find that I was wrong, and I distinguished between the framework and the details; the same thing we are saying about your circumstance.

No vague BS about "I could be wrong".

That's vague? Admitting that I might be wrong when all the research indicates I might be wrong is vague? You are mistaken.

Were you at work, sitting at your desk?

At work, not at my desk. The being at work part is verifiable. The "not at my desk" part is not and could be wrong.

This is not difficult. It was a work day, we know what time it happened, there would be a specific place you would normally be at that time. If something unusual pre-empted this routine you'd know it.

You would most certainly know it at the time. Accurately recalling details later is what is under discussion. I suspect you are quite capable of understanding the distinction, even if you don't want to admit it.

Face it, the argument is stupid.

No. The argument is detrimental to your conclusion. Further, the argument is backed up by actual science whereas your conclusion is backed up only by your insistence on your own infallibility.

I know EXACTLY where I was and what I was doing

We can grant that and still not change the fact that there is far more reason to think that (a) your memory is mistaken in the details AND / OR (b) your analysis is incorrect regardless.

and it's NEVER had reason to change.

A reason to change is not required; change happens anyway. Despite that, exactly how would you expect someone to know that their memory changes when the sciences shows that it changes without them knowing?

But then I don't make up or embellish stories to be dramatic.

Of course not. Besides infallibility you possess a character of extremely noble integrity.

That's not a character trait of people with ADHD, and that's not how my memory works.

For someone who not only was completely unaware of the science about malleable memories and who has only skimmed (with continued errors in comprehension) the links provided, you seem to know quite a bit about who is excluded from the research. Or should I say you seem to assume quite a bit...

If I tell someone a story I don't tell that same person that same story three more times in as many months. A lot of people do that. You obviously have no clue how an ADHD mind functions.

But you know that it makes you immune to fallible memory because....... well, because you just know, apparently.

We walk around with a series of memory gaps in our mundane activities of the day. The most common is having something in your hand and setting it down and not remembering where that was one minute later.

So you suffer from the same problems as people without ADHD. Got it.

An important event, a traumatic accident, things like that, once it's locked in long term storage it doesn't degrade ever.

So ADHD = infallible. That seems to crop up a lot, though the evidence for it never crops up at all.

Taken with the fact I verified this event with this woman both that night and several weeks later

So despite what you just claimed, you did talk about the event more than once. Interesting how memory works, even within one post.

so if there was any discrepancy she'd have pointed it out,

That statement assumes very many things, all of which seemed to have escaped your infallible comprehension and infallible memory.

this is beyond absurd.

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[jhunter1163]

I have moved a bunch of bickering and off-topic posts to AAH. Your yellow cards will be along shortly. As a reminder, the topic of this thread is John Edward and not, I repeat not, each other. Do not personalize your arguments and remain civil and polite. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

 

[Foolmewunz]

Okay so tell us exactly what the difference was between where you really where and what you were doing when you heard about 9/11, and the distorted version you believe you've been telling people recently.

No vague BS about "I could be wrong". Were you at work, sitting at your desk? This is not difficult. It was a work day, we know what time it happened, there would be a specific place you would normally be at that time. If something unusual pre-empted this routine you'd know it.

Face it, the argument is stupid. I know EXACTLY where I was and what I was doing and it's NEVER had reason to change. But then I don't make up or embellish stories to be dramatic. That's not a character trait of people with ADHD, and that's not how my memory works. If I tell someone a story I don't tell that same person that same story three more times in as many months. A lot of people do that. You obviously have no clue how an ADHD mind functions. We walk around with a series of memory gaps in our mundane activities of the day. The most common is having something in your hand and setting it down and not remembering where that was one minute later.

An important event, a traumatic accident, things like that, once it's locked in long term storage it doesn't degrade ever.

Taken with the fact I verified this event with this woman both that night and several weeks later, so if there was any discrepancy she'd have pointed it out, this is beyond absurd.

Most people on the forums who were involved in debunking conspiradroids can tell you exactly where they were when they heard the news or first learned of the events. And that probably applies to most people presently over 30.

I can tell you exactly. Not only is it etched in my memory, but I've written it down, here, in 911CT threads and I told the story in October of 2001 in a radio interview with friends in Taipei. Putting it into a narrative early, I'm fairly sure I have all the major details correct.

I was at my desk when we heard the first hit and turned around in time (must've been a second) to see the flames and debris shooting out of the south side of WTC1. That's pretty hard to forget. What I cannot be sure of was whether it was really Mr. Sussmann who was the one who first said it was terrorists, or if it was Carole D'aurio. And who was wearing what, and who came and went and where everyone was standing when we witnessed the second hit. All of those, even having been there, I would not want to bet on my memories. I have compared notes with some of the people who were there and everyone seems to recall a different person leading the evacuation of the building, and some of us recall standing around outside of our building watching the buildings with various co-workers, but some of those same co-workers seem to have been in two separate watching groups, a half-mile apart.

Both Karyn and I recall spending the morning with our Sr. V-P. Karyn was 200 meters away from me and I never saw her after we left the building. I was on the north side of 10 Exchange Place and she was on the south - towards the Colgate clock. Yet we both distinctly remember discussions with the same guy when we watched the towers fall. Karyn's one of my best buds for fifteen years and we've compared notes. She was adamant; so was I. We'll never know because the guy in question doesn't remember who he was hanging out with for those few hours, but recalls me giving him a lift up to Weehauken so he could connect with the ferry back to Manhattan when it re-opened later.

It's those kinds of details that people get wrong. And Karyn's been in that same office ever since, so they have sat around discussing 9/11 many times since then. I have no doubt that my version is correct, because it's mine. I suspect that she's embellished her memories from conversations, but I wouldn't bet the mortgage money on it.

 

[dafydd]

How much does John Edwards rake in yearly from his scam?

 

[Foolmewunz]

I have moved a bunch of bickering and off-topic posts to AAH. Your yellow cards will be along shortly. As a reminder, the topic of this thread is John Edward and not, I repeat not, each other. Do not personalize your arguments and remain civil and polite. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

Don't want to start a FM squabble - not worth a thread - but could you consider Garrette's post (#8 in AAH) to be re-included in this thread? It's not responding to a dinged post, it's detailed and has good content. (IMHO)

 

[FluffyPersian]

And so when I had a drink I tried to minimize the calories and would only drink vodka and seltzer with a splash of cranberry. On about the 5th day of the cruise we were in a big room waiting for a bingo game to start . I went up to the bar and for the first time on the cruise thought to myself I really want a pina coloda! But that is way too many calories. The bartender was helping someone else and I had another internal tug of war.. just get the pina coloda..then i thought no you worked so hard to lose weight get a drink with lesser calories. The bartender arrived and I ordered my usual vodka and seltzer with a splash of cranberry juice. After that, bingo is about to start but they make an announcement that they are going to use all the names (over 150) that purchased bingo cards and have a drawing to give away..of all things... a pina coloda...so who do you think won that pina coloda!

Many women on the ship were likely going through that same tug of war and could have told the same story had they won the raffle. Women often dress in bathing suits on cruise ships with pools, which makes many think twice about ordering calorie-laden drinks. Yet pinas are popular "girly drinks" on cruises, which is why you and many other women were tempted by them.

 

[Garrette]

Don't want to start a FM squabble - not worth a thread - but could you consider Garrette's post (#8 in AAH) to be re-included in this thread? It's not responding to a dinged post, it's detailed and has good content. (IMHO)

Thanks.

 

[batvette]

It's those kinds of details that people get wrong. And Karyn's been in that same office ever since, so they have sat around discussing 9/11 many times since then. I have no doubt that my version is correct, because it's mine. I suspect that she's embellished her memories from conversations, but I wouldn't bet the mortgage money on it.

Please refer to this quotation which was the basis of the argument:

We are so eager to conform to the collective, to fit our little lives into the arc of history, that we end up misleading ourselves. Consider an investigation of flashbulb memories from September 11, 2001. A few days after the tragic attacks, a team of psychologists led by William Hirst and Elizabeth Phelps began interviewing people about their personal experiences. In the years since, the researchers have tracked the steady decay of these personal stories. They’ve shown, for instance, that subjects have dramatically changed their recollection of how they first learned about the attacks. After one year, 37 percent of the details in their original story had changed. By 2004, that number was approaching 50 percent. The scientists have just begun analyzing their ten year follow-up data, but it will almost certainly show that the majority of details from that day are now inventions. Our 9/11 tales are almost certainly better – more entertaining, more dramatic, more reflective of that awful day – but those improvements have come at the expense of the truth. Stories make sense. Life usually doesn’t.

Your recollection, per the standards being argued, is 100% Since you think that "post #8" (actually #9) was informative, I can see what motivated this bizarre angle in the vein of the italicized portion above:

What I cannot be sure of was whether it was really Mr. Sussmann who was the one who first said it was terrorists, or if it was Carole D'aurio. And who was wearing what, and who came and went and where everyone was standing when we witnessed the second hit.

Indeed, this confirms their point.

At this point since everyone commenting, including myself, and the authors of those "substantiating articles" all seem to recall exactly how they learned of the 9/11 attacks just as it's argued we're now supposed to be oblivious to, I call the issue moot.

I will however admit I do not recall what color Jodi's shirt was, nor whether it was Jodi who was the first one who said "What!"

This closes my comments toward anything other than the fraudulent activities of John Edwards.

 

[pakeha]

How much does John Edwards rake in yearly from his scam?

Tax-liable income only, or would you include tokens of appreciation from the grateful marks as well?

 

[AdMan]

I find it amusing that posters who have little knowledge of how human memory actually works still claim that their own memory is near perfect.

 

[kerikiwi]

At this point since everyone commenting, including myself, and the authors of those "substantiating articles" all seem to recall exactly how they learned of the 9/11 attacks just as it's argued we're now supposed to be oblivious to, I call the issue moot.

Can you confirm that you have read the articles?

 

[carlitos]

whoops. deleted.

 

[malicus]

I find it amusing that posters who have little knowledge of how human memory actually works still claim that their own memory is near perfect.

Finding out your memories are wrong can actually be quite disturbing. What else in my memory bank is wrong? Especially when memories are all we have left of our departed.

One of my most vivid memories as a youngster was watching the Iranian Embassy being stormed by the SAS in 1980. I remember it was lunchtime on a Friday and I was just home from school for lunch and watched it on tv with my mum - I was late for class later and got a row from my teacher!

Except.......it was a Monday, evening, and I wasn't even at school that day.

My mum was there though.........i think........