Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[TheRedWorm]

Including diphtheria. I never worried about it because I was vaccinated against it. Why is Clayton nostalgic about these diseases that he has no experience of?

I really don't know. I know my dad lost a couple of friends to childhood illnesses, and, if I'm not mistaken, my mom lost a cousin to polio. These diseases really did suck a bag of tar, and I don't think anyone who has actually lived through them or has known anyone who has lived through them is eager for their return.

 

[ehcks]

140 deaths per year in England in the 50s from measles.

1.4 deaths per year from 1992-2008 when vaccine coverage was around 90%.

Annual deaths from measles reduced by 99%.

Amazing, isn't it? 90% coverage leads to 99% reduction.

And that's not all. 99% coverage actually leads to 100% reduction. An absolute extinction of the entire disease worldwide. We've seen it. We've done it. No one needs the smallpox vaccine anymore.

You'd think people against vaccinations would actually want everyone to get them now, because that means in just a few years, no one needs them ever again.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I really don't know. I know my dad lost a couple of friends to childhood illnesses, and, if I'm not mistaken, my mom lost a cousin to polio. These diseases really did suck a bag of tar, and I don't think anyone who has actually lived through them or has known anyone who has lived through them is eager for their return.

Do you think his friends would be saved/cured by today's advancements in medical technology?

 

[ehcks]

Do you think his friends would be saved/cured by today's advancements in medical technology?

In that most previously fatal childhood diseases mostly don't exist anymore, yes. I would say so.

 

[Giordano]

Do you think his friends would be saved/cured by today's advancements in medical technology?

I suppose if one caught polio today we could offer them a better iron lung today than in the 1950s...

How on Earth is it not better to prevent a dangerous disease than to try to treat one after it is acquired?

And Clayton, I doubt that you trust the medical treatments any more thn you trust the vaccines. They are made by the same evil drug companies and contain all sorts of "chemicals" like sodium phosphate and bicarbonate. Are you sincere in this argument-it appears to go against virtually everything else you've posted.

 

[dafydd]

Do you think his friends would be saved/cured by today's advancements in medical technology?

They would have stood a much better chance. How far back would you like to take medicine? Leeches and hanging a necklace of live worms around your neck to cure a sore throat?

 

[TheRedWorm]

Do you think his friends would be saved/cured by today's advancements in medical technology?

They would have been vaccinated, so they would not have fallen ill in the first place. That is why me and my siblings have been vaccinated, because my parents saw what those diseases were capable of. Now, answer my previous question.

Now, on the subject of polio, how about you answer for the rest of the diseases that we currently vaccinate against. All of them, taken together, are surly more dangerous that autism will ever hope to be, don't you think?

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton you really need to learn about modern medical science before commentating on it

 

[Estellea]

What few of you understand is that vaccines are not V+M=D=I

virus + man = disease = immunity

For the immune system all the players are "expected" present and accounted for.


Every change to that equation is a challenge to an immune system.

Think about it, vaccines are charged up with matter to make a weakened or whatever virus known to the immune system, vaccines also have matter in them to act as a preservative while being stored for use.

So how does the V+M=D=I immune system react to the "new players" and the revved up virus alert? What happens to the non "actual virus matter" and where does it wind up? Has medical science accounted for every bit of matter or possible misfolded protein in the modern vaccine? Can medical science account for every bit of matter or possible misfolded protein in the DPT or MMR or MMRV vaccines?

You trying to navigate complex biological issues is really painful to watch Clay. What are your qualifications by the way? And yes, I have many.

What happens to the extra matter of 8 vaccines administered in one session?

"Extra matter"? WTH is that?! Has it occured to you that if you can't even use the proper terminology you might be out of your depth?

BTW The Lancet paper by Dr. Wakefield and his associates identified what seemed to be measles vaccine residue in the guts of autistic children and the severe gastrointestinal (GI) problems. All those children had received MMR.

Except Wakers didn't find any "measles vaccine residue" (good grief this is even painful to have to repeat) in the guts of autistic children. In fact some of the Lancet children didn't even have autism. Why do you think he left the measles virus part out of the Lancet?

A woman doctor would be even less likely. Did you see the story about Dr. Oz's wife and vaccines?

Wow and a chauvinist to boot. Dr. Oz's wife is a nutter Reiki "practitioner" so her opinion about vaccines isn't relevant. Dr. Oz (unbelievably) has spoken in favour of vaccines by the way. Not that he matters.

Este

 

[Clayton Moore]

You trying to navigate complex biological issues is really painful to watch Clay. What are your qualifications by the way? And yes, I have many.


"Extra matter"? WTH is that?! Has it occured to you that if you can't even use the proper terminology you might be out of your depth?


Except Wakers didn't find any "measles vaccine residue" (good grief this is even painful to have to repeat) in the guts of autistic children. In fact some of the Lancet children didn't even have autism. Why do you think he left the measles virus part out of the Lancet?


Wow and a chauvinist to boot. Dr. Oz's wife is a nutter Reiki "practitioner" so her opinion about vaccines isn't relevant. Dr. Oz (unbelievably) has spoken in favour of vaccines by the way. Not that he matters.

Este

Nobody matters. That's your bottom line.



That how it is
in the vaccine biz

 

[Clayton Moore]

I suppose if one caught polio today we could offer them a better iron lung today than in the 1950s...

Have I ever said anything negative about the polio vaccine?
TheRedWorm

I really don't know. I know my dad lost a couple of friends to childhood illnesses, and, if I'm not mistaken, my mom lost a cousin to polio. These diseases really did suck a bag of tar, and I don't think anyone who has actually lived through them or has known anyone who has lived through them is eager for their return.

So of course you dredge up polio.


Polio and diphtheria and others are not normal childhood diseases. Mumps and measles and chicken pox and others are.

 

[Clayton Moore]

And Clayton, I doubt that you trust the medical treatments any more thn you trust the vaccines. They are made by the same evil drug companies and contain all sorts of "chemicals" like sodium phosphate and bicarbonate. Are you sincere in this argument-it appears to go against virtually everything else you've posted.

Since you asked.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/fs-failed-prostate-implant.html
http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Health/2009/20090622-VeteransBadly.htm

I had a consult 2006 with, I'm pretty sure, the doctor responsible for the above horror. Brachytherapy had been my procedure of choice. He told me they didn't do it there at the Philly VA. He actually looked as if he was afflicted with "radiation burns." I dodged that "seed" didn't I.

 

[abaddon]

Have I ever said anything negative about the polio vaccine?

To be fair, no. You have simply grouped all vaccines. If you now want to divide vaccines up into good and bad vaccines, then you will have to show which and why. Go right ahead and do that.

So of course you dredge up polio.

And why not?

Polio and diphtheria and others are not normal childhood diseases. Mumps and measles and chicken pox and others are.

True, after vaccines were introduced. Before vaccines, they were most certainly childhood diseases. Mumps and measles and chicken pox persist because people are conned into refusing vaccines for those.

 

[dafydd]

That how it is
in the vaccine biz

A failure as a poet too.

 

[godless dave]

No. The supposedly horrific USA measles statistics are from the 50s. Nobody in the 50s thought measles was even close to dangerous.

Evidence, please.

 

[dafydd]

Evidence, please.

No chance. It's another of Clayton's made-up ''facts''

 

[ehcks]

Polio and diphtheria and others are not normal childhood diseases.

Because vaccines drove them near extinction and they only exist in a few poor countries now.

Mumps and measles and chicken pox and others are.

Because some people avoid getting vaccinations.

We could make polio, diptheria, measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox extinct. Then no one would even suggest vaccinating for them anymore. Why are you against that?

 

[dafydd]

We could make polio, diptheria, measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox extinct. Then no one would even suggest vaccinating for them anymore. Why are you against that?

It can't be nostalgia because he wasn't around when these diseases were raging unchecked. i have no idea why he wants to see children suffer.

 

[Estellea]

Nobody matters. That's your bottom line.



That how it is
in the vaccine biz

That's a non-response to your obvious lack of qualifications in the biomedical field and your continued dissemination of false statements. And you're a chauvinist too. Not a stunning combination when added to all of your other conspiracies.

Have I ever said anything negative about the polio vaccine?
TheRedWorm

So of course you dredge up polio.

Polio and diphtheria and others are not normal childhood diseases. Mumps and measles and chicken pox and others are.

Why wouldn't polio, diphtheria and "others" NOT be "normal childhood diseases"? They have and do infect primarily children. What another ludicrous statement.

And why do you keep making claims, are asked for substantiation and/or clarification and refuse? How can you realistically accuse others of not being interested in honest debate when you can't even finish a thought?

Este

 

[Chris Haynes]

...Polio and diphtheria and others are not normal childhood diseases. Mumps and measles and chicken pox and others are.

So the sled teams (including the one that included Balto) raced up to Nome in 1925 just for fun? Do you not have any clue what they were carrying and why it was so important? Hint: it was not to start the annual Iditorod Sled Race.

So have you yet figured out which vaccine on the American pediatric schedule only comes with thimerosal? Are you still having trouble reading this table? This is at least the fourth time I have asked this question.

And do tell us how good your immunity to tetanus after surviving the actual disease. It would help if you told how it is a nice mild disease that no one gets anymore, or perhaps you should tell this family: 'It was hideous' - family's tetanus agony. After reading that I am sure you will tell me exactly how much more dangerous the DTaP is versus diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. Though If you mention mercury again I will insist you answer the question in the above paragraph.